What do you think?, New adept power Options

[Dragonaxe]

Bullet Curve
Cost: 1 per Level (Max 5)
Requires: AGI 4, REA 4, Pistols 5
This ability allows an adept to fire a one handed (single shot or semi-auto) projectile weapon placing a tremendous amount of spin on the shot; causing it to have a curved flight path that allows it to avoid intervening obstructions or to strike a vulnerable area. The adept can even cause a shot to strike from seemingly impossible angles.
The adept can spiral a shot off the centerline by one meter per level of this power; however, the target must be a number of meters behind the negated cover by a minimum of the same distance. The adept suffers a penalty to this attack roll equal to the number of meters spiraled (round all fractions up). Performing a spiral shot is a Simple Action.
This ability can be used to curve a shot to hit vulnerable locations with greater ease. When using this ability to attempt to hit a vulnerable area reduces the penalty for a called shot by the level of this power. This is compatible with spiral shot, but does not lower the penalty for a spiral shot. Performing a curve shot is Simple Action.
The adept can also place enough spin on a shot that with enough room that it can arc; striking a target from up to 90° of the centerline. The target must be a minimum of at least [(Base DV of the weapon-Level) +2] x5 meters away for this and a penalty equal to [(Base DV of the weapon-Level) +2] is applied to the attack. Half the distance to the target, open for the shot to travel laterally (in the direction of the arc), needs to be available. This is compatible with spiral shot; both penalties apply however. Performing an arc shot is Complex Action. The target may not is able to defend against an attack of this kind, at the game master’s discretion.
All recoil and off hand modifiers still apply, as does all rules regarding firing more than one gun. Smart links only grant their bonus if the software is custom modified requiring a (Software + Logic) [Level x 3] extended test which has an interval of 3 days. The parts for this modification cost (250 x level)¥ An enhanced range finder is also required. The test for this is a (Hardware + Logic) [10] extended test with an interval of 3 hours. Other forms of aim enhancement (Laser pointers, tracer rounds, etc.) are not effective. (Although watching a tracer’s flight path curve is cool.)
The Game master has final say on wither or not enough room exists to curve a shot, or if any particular pistol can be used with this ability. This power is as much for role-playing purposes as for combat; it should be useful, flashy, but not overpowered. If an arc shot misses the Game master can say that it comes full circle forcing the adapt to make a (Dodge + Reaction) test with a threshold [(Base DV of the weapon-Level) +2].

[Fortune]

Not in my games!

Aside from the fact that I don't like the Power itself, I also really do not like the presence of prerequisite Attribute and Skill levels.

[ahammer]

I dont see anyone being able to do this not even a adept. you just can not turn a gun that fast, hand does not go that way.. that being said would work with trown weapon.

[Dragonaxe]

My take on the nature of adepts is that many of their abilities are powered by the adepts force of will and backed with mana (killing hands). Many of their powers are magic in nature(elemental strike). Either of these can explain the force that this power can place on a spinning bullet.

[ahammer]

My take on the nature of adepts is that many of their abilities are powered by the adepts force of will and backed with mana (killing hands). Many of their powers are magic in nature(elemental strike). Either of these can explain the force that this power can place on a spinning bullet.

yes but your target for killing hands or elemental strike(dont have my book but dont think that works with guns if I recall right) is not moving at faster then the speed of sound(or close to it) and if it is your not going to hit it
. you could not spin it before it come out of the gun as the grove of the gun would counter act this . ask your self if this was such a good idea why would gun maker not have done it already.

[Ravor]

I don't like it.

[Dragonaxe]

The powers listed were for their concept not there exact rule content. Magic allow for many things that physics does not. If a player comes to me and asks me if a concept is possible in SR and it does not break Canon (reviving the dead, teleportation, breaching the astral, creation of items, time/space magic) then there is most likely a way, IMO.

I understand that the physics to doing this are beyond doing in the real world, but in SR there exists the possibility for it.

EDIT there is a deflection spell. btw EDIT

[Fortune]

Most magic in Shadowrun does actually tend to follow the laws of physics, at least loosely.

[ahammer]

it my view of magic is you need to focus you chi on the object you are trying to affect(see range:los)
and you can always focus on yourself,

as you cant affect the bullet before it comes out of the gun(see last post).
cant keep track of it after it leaves the gun and cant get the gun spining that fast.

it just does would not work in my game due to my view on magic alone.

[Jhaiisiin]

So with the mention of the deflect spell, maybe make a new spell "curve bullet" that is a hyperspecialized version of the deflect spell. Means you'd have to make a mystic adept to get use of it, but hey, it's an option.

[Dr Funfrock]

From an in universe perspective I'd say Dragonaxe is right, it's perfectly feasible. The idea of an Adept using their magical abilities to apply perfectly timed spin to a projectile is no more ridiculous than Improved Reactions, Power Throw, Thrown Weapon Mastery, Elemental Strike, and let's not forget Distance Strike. If I can cause my punches to magically hit a guy on the other side of the room, I think I should be able to spin a bullet.

My only problem with this power is that it's really badly written.
First off, nothing has pre-reqs in adept powers, except for the rare occasion when you need another power first.
Secondly, the phrasing is absolutely horrible. This whole thing is bloated with ridiculously over-complicated rules design. It reads like an Exalted Charm description (the Sidereal martial arts ones that take up a whole page).
Just say that it reduces cover penalties by 1 per rank. Adjust the cost to match. Done. It's not overpowered. Take a look at Adept Centering, which reduces all penalties, or Heightened Concentration which wipes out a penalty up to your magic. Since this power only works against one specific penalty that offsets the fact that you don't need an action to kick it in. You could either say it ignores cover up to Magic, like Heightened Concentration, or knock the cost down and go with the per rank idea I suggested above.

I would impose the limitation that whilst it reduces cover penalties (by guiding the bullet around the cover somehow) it won't negate perfect cover, because you need to be able to see path between yourself and at least some part of the target for the magic to work. That covers any "can't magic what you can't see" problems.

Obviously it's up to any GM whether they want the damn thing in their game, but it's not an entirely ridiculous power in itself.

[Jaid]

From an in universe perspective I'd say Dragonaxe is right, it's perfectly feasible. The idea of an Adept using their magical abilities to apply perfectly timed spin to a projectile is no more ridiculous than Improved Reactions, Power Throw, Thrown Weapon Mastery, Elemental Strike, and let's not forget Distance Strike. If I can cause my punches to magically hit a guy on the other side of the room, I think I should be able to spin a bullet.

My only problem with this power is that it's really badly written.
First off, nothing has pre-reqs in adept powers, except for the rare occasion when you need another power first.
Secondly, the phrasing is absolutely horrible. This whole thing is bloated with ridiculously over-complicated rules design. It reads like an Exalted Charm description (the Sidereal martial arts ones that take up a whole page).
Just say that it reduces cover penalties by 1 per rank. Adjust the cost to match. Done. It's not overpowered. Take a look at Adept Centering, which reduces all penalties, or Heightened Concentration which wipes out a penalty up to your magic. Since this power only works against one specific penalty that offsets the fact that you don't need an action to kick it in. You could either say it ignores cover up to Magic, like Heightened Concentration, or knock the cost down and go with the per rank idea I suggested above.

I would impose the limitation that whilst it reduces cover penalties (by guiding the bullet around the cover somehow) it won't negate perfect cover, because you need to be able to see path between yourself and at least some part of the target for the magic to work. That covers any "can't magic what you can't see" problems.

Obviously it's up to any GM whether they want the damn thing in their game, but it's not an entirely ridiculous power in itself.

wow, glad someone else put this down, because i was trying to figure out how to say just exactly what he said. the power is overcomplicated. the proposed change here will resolve quickly, and is much more reasonable imo because of it.

[ahammer]

deflect the bullet ratter then spining it helps sove most of the magic limits for me. (deflect affect the air in the area of the spell so you still have somthing you can focus on and can be set up sec before the bullet is fired.)
but I think that dr that his ruling on it seem to make more easyer to play with and still give you the bonus without being over power.

I might even rule that you could hit behind cover but would be blind fire as you could not see target.

[Dragonaxe]

While i know that the rules text are a bit on the verbrose side allow me to give an exape of the power in actioon to explain what i was going for:

JackRat the adept (Curve Bullet 1) who is using a 5p pistol is trying to hit the sec-goon who is hiding behind a car firing at him. Jackrat fires a Sprial Shot the shot needs to go a bout a quarter of a meter off center to go over the car, the goon is roughly that far back as he is not blindly shooting at jackrat. Jackrat would suffer a -1 to his attack roll.

Having taken fire from the sprial shot, the goon goes to move behind a pillal to have hard cover. Jackrat fires a curve shot to hid him in the knee cap, the gamemaster assigns -2 dice penalty to the shot, Jackrats Level 1 Curve bullet counter one of the penalty dice, so the penalty is only -1

Jack rat hits with the shot but the goon still makes it to a pillar and is now enjoying full cover trying to call in back up. Glancing around he sees the rest of the parking garage is mostly empaty and attemts a Arc shot, the goon is 65 meters away so is just far enough away. Assuming the GM agrees that there is room Jackrat has to make his attack test with a -6 penalty; if he had to spiral the shot as well to avoid obstacles the penalty for that would be added as well

I'm not going to lie this idea was taken from a movie on of my players saw, he show it to me and ask if i could do it. In my group they aren't worried if it's a bit wordy, as long as it makes sense. The weapon dv formula takes in to account that doing this with a .22 is a lot easier than a .50 desert eagle.

btw the movie was wanted hers a clip to get the idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ftozVc3lI

[the_real_elwood]

I guess its a fine idea, though it seems a little bit cheesy to me. The only problem I have with it is that it's just too complicated to fit really use in combat. If a player's got to take 5 minutes just to figure out what happens when they take their shot, let alone actually rolling the dice, no one is going to really want to use it. If you could simplify the mechanics a bit, I could see some players being interested in taking this, but to be honest, none of the shadowrun games I've played in have had situations where a power like this would be useful.

[darthmord]

Someone watched 'Wanted' didn't they? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Keep in mind they were able to pull off far more than just curving bullets. Much of what they could accomplish would easily fall into the realm of physical or mystic adepts.

[The Jopp]

How about just making it simple:

Curve Shot (Applicable to any kind of ranged weapon including thrown weapons)
Cost: 0,5/Lvl

Each lvl of Curve Shot reduce enemy cover penalty by 1. A goon hiding behind a hard cover (-4D6) only gives a -2D6 with Curve Shot lvl 2.

[Dragnar]

I agree with the general consensus that the original write up is needlessly complicated. If you want to create a power to shoot better at targets in cover, then simply design a power to shoot better at targets in cover.
You wrote half a page of text and your power does basically the same thing as The Jopp's one sentence version. Remember KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Ugh...don't mix home-rule tech with home-rule magic.

If SR used Deadland's cover = armor rules, it'd be useful, but since it has a concealment = cover ruleset for aiming, forget it.

If you want to make impossible shots, just buy up your edge, instead.

[Dragonaxe]

Okay read over the sugestions and have reviesed the power a bit. I know that it is still a bit wordy but it does what i want to to do. again any feed back is welcome.

====================================
Bullet Curve
Cost: 1 per Level (Max 4)
This ability allows an adept to throw or fire a one handed (single Shot or semi-auto) projectile weapon placing a tremendous amount of spin on the shot; causing it to have a curved flight path that allows it to avoid intervening obstructions or to strike a vulnerable area. The adept can even cause a shot to strike from seemingly impossible angles.
Before firing a shot, the adept may roll a (Magic + Level) test, the threshold for this test is the sum of each abilities used mod rating. Net successes from this test may be used in the following ways:
The adept can Spiral a Shot, reducing the penalty for cover by the net successes. Performing a Spiral Shot is Simple Action. Mod 1
This ability can be used to Curve a Shot to hit vulnerable locations with greater ease; reducing the penalty for a called shot by the net successes. This is compatible with Spiral Shot. Performing a Curve Shot is Simple Action. Mod 1
If both abilities are used, it is a Complex Action. Divide the net successes between them at player’s choice. Extra successes are added to the adept’s dice pool for the next shot, if taken in this pass. Successes cannot be used to negate the penalty for Arc Shot.
The adept can also place enough spin on a Shot that with enough room that it can Arc; striking a target from up to 90° of the centerline. The target must be a minimum of at least 10 meters away for this and a penalty equal to (Base DV of the weapon-Level) applied to the attack. Half the distance to the target, open for the Shot to travel laterally (in the direction of the Arc), needs to be available. Increase the range modifier penalty by 1. This is compatible with Curve Shot and Spiral Shot. Performing an Arc Shot is Complex Action. If Curve and Spiral Shot are used as well, the target is not able to defend against an attack of this kind. Mod 3
All recoil and off hand modifiers still apply, as does all rules regarding firing more than one gun. Smart links only grant their bonus if the software is custom modified requiring a (Software + Logic) [Level x 3] extended test that has an interval of 3 days. The parts for this modification cost (250 x level)¥. An enhanced range finder is also required. The test for this is a (Hardware + Logic) [10] extended test with an interval of 3 hours. Other forms of aim enhancement (Laser pointers, tracer rounds, etc.) are not effective. (Although watching a tracer’s flight path curve is cool.)
The Game master has final say on wither or not enough room exists to curve a shot, or if any particular weapon can be used with this ability. This power is as much for role-playing purposes as for combat; it should be useful, flashy, but not overpowered. If an Arc Shot misses the Game master can say that it comes full circle; forcing the adept to make a (Dodge + Reaction) test with a threshold [(Base DV of the weapon-Level) +2].
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Know realize that a lot of that text is really only fine print on how the power deals with other elements in the game. after using it a time or two in practice the player was able to do the math in his head using this new set of rules. thanks for the help so far.

[Hagga]

That movie was terrible.

[Fortune]

Shrug. I was entertained.

[The Jopp]

What I found terrible about "that" movie was the fact that it was based on a comic book and they didn't even manage to do it even closely or well.

In the comic the main characters father was one of the worlds greatest SUPERVILLAINS and his son then joins this organization of supervillains.

At one time earlier in history they all joined into one great plan and killed ALL superheroes - then they brainwashed the earth into believeing it never happened and supervillains/superheroes didn't exist.

They even had a small snippet about how they let superman live and he was in a wheelchair (no clear reference to superman but it was damn close).

[Fuchs]

[ Spoiler ]

And they fed "The detective" aka Batman and his sidekick to a mechanical man-eating octopus ("We are not superheroes, we just played them in a tv show")

[DireRadiant]

Why not just use edge and called shot?

Way too complicated. Who routinely does the ballistics paths to that level of detail?

An adept power to reduce called shot or cover penalties is all you need. In some ways that would be similar to centering.