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> Nuclear Elementals, The Most Lethal Critters
Neraph
post Dec 6 2008, 06:35 PM
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Did you know that Force 1 Nuclear elementals can theorhetically kill Great Dragons? Neither did I, until I took a closer look at them.

A nuclear elemental is simply a toxic fire elemental. Fire elementals aren't really that dangerous, neccessarily. However, as soon as that fire elemental gets corrupted (I think that's the metamagic), its Energy Aura, Energy Attack, and Engulf attacks change from (Fire) to (Radiation). Street Magic kinda tells us a little about radiation damage; how it's treated as physical damage and how it ignores armor. That in and of itself is really dangerous.

But it gets worse.

Enter Arsenal, on the bottom of page 167, where it starts refining radiation damage. It remains physical damage that ignores armor, but now it's also treated as a pathogen, as per Augmentation, page 129.

There are 4 forms of radiation listed in Arsenal; Mild, Moderate, Severe, and Deadly. Now all of them have Speeds that also have a timer next to them like pathogens, but unlike pathogens there's no minimum amount of intervals. I'd imagine that means they keep going until actual medical care is given, but that's not the important part.

The important part is how it states
QUOTE (Arsenal, pg 168)
The long-term effects of radiation hazards, contamination, and cumulative irradiation on characters uses the same mechanics given for pathogens...
(emphasis added). This means that even if you reduce the power of the attack down to 0 and take no damage from the attack, since you were subject to said radiation, it starts to accrue. And as soon as you accrue Deadly levels of radiation, even if you took no damage from the radiation, you still enter a state known as the walking ghost phase, which means you have 1-4 days before you enter into
QUOTE (Arsenal, pg. 169)
... general organ failure and total metabolic shutdown.


One of the very interesting things about Energy Aura is how, irregardless of the Force of the elemental, it deals a set +4 DV, and if you strike it with a melee attack, you're subject to a 4 DV attack of said element. 4 DV with 0 penetration is exactly like Mild Radiation Poisoning. So when you hit this F1 Nuclear Spirit, you have to save vs. 4 Radiation damage. Even if you reduce the DV to 0, since you were subjected to Mild Radiation Poisoning, you're still mildly irradiated. Additional attacks will accrue the radiation poisoning until, after who knows how many hot sources you're exposed to, you hit Severe Radiation Poisoning, and, even though you haven't taken damage, you have 1-4 days to live.

Now normally it'd be easy to stay away from these things, but we can do mean things like have them on the astral plane, moving their 5 kM/CT to keep up with/catch up to the group, then materialize (in 2 IPs, IIRC) right beside the players. Most people would just smack it, and that would induce radiation poisoning. Or, you could have them posess other creatures, and have said creatures get into melee range.

The point being, it's easy to use an elemental that inflicts radiation damange to induce radiation poisoning in a group.

Let's take a F6 or F8 Nuclear Elemental's Energy Attack (Radiation). A f6 would take 1 or 2 (maybe 3 if you're feeling generous) to reach Deadly Radiation Poisoning, since 6 DV is slightly above Severe Poisoning. And that's ignoring net hits increasing DV. On the other hand, a F8 Nuclear Elemental's base DV is already 8, wich starts us out in Deadly Radiation Poisoning levels.

Considering a magic 1 toxic shaman can summon f1 Nuclear spirits, and it only takes a magic 4 shaman to summon f8 nuclear spirits, I think the world just got a lot more dangerous.

Interesting, no?
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Ancient History
post Dec 6 2008, 06:52 PM
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Two things.

QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 6 2008, 07:35 PM) *
This means that even if you reduce the power of the attack down to 0 and take no damage from the attack, since you were subject to said radiation, it starts to accrue.

This is what is called a "false assumption." By your logic even a character in a rad suit would die from radiation poisoning. Your basic assumption that a nuclear elemental is the same as Mild Radiation Poisoning is spurious; you conveniently ignore the fact that the rules for radiation elemental damage specifically states that the character damaged by the attack develops light radiation poisoning, which increase in severity as the dosage of radiation increases. So starting out at Moderate radiation poisoning is more than a little silly, especially if the damage is reduced to zero.

Second, Digital Grimoire introduces the decontamination, radiation barrier, and radiation shield spells.
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Stahlseele
post Dec 6 2008, 08:10 PM
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and isn't cancer cureable in SR?
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hobgoblin
post Dec 6 2008, 08:32 PM
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localized cancer maybe, but iirc, with enough radiation exposure, your whole body is a walking cancer cell factory...

as for radiation being nasty, no shit sherlock!
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Starmage21
post Dec 6 2008, 10:30 PM
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DNA can be successfully rewritten however the doc wants it, up to the point of complete repair of aging. Cancer is toast.
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WeaverMount
post Dec 6 2008, 10:32 PM
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Yeah just write a retro virus that replaces all DNA with ... your DNA
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Stahlseele
post Dec 6 2008, 10:32 PM
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there's probably even an immunization to cancer all together . . or against radiation . .
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hobgoblin
post Dec 6 2008, 11:11 PM
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may take time tho, and be costly...

oh, and be sure to file a sample before you pick up the SV's...
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WeaverMount
post Dec 6 2008, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Dec 6 2008, 06:11 PM) *
may take time tho, and be costly...

oh, and be sure to file a sample before you pick up the SV's...


I'm sorry Mr. Goblin, if you thinking about the cost of heath care these days you can't afford it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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hobgoblin
post Dec 6 2008, 11:28 PM
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heh, i dont think health insurance covers radiation exposure...

especially not if one is a shadowrunner by trade...
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Hagga
post Dec 7 2008, 01:13 AM
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Not complete immunity - check out uncontrolled metastasis, which is available to changelings too. Keep in mind that radiation dosages are subjective and involve the gm saying "Now you have X level" - you don't know how "hot" the elemental is exactly, and that radiation in general depends on size - I'm going to be able to take a hell of a lot more rad exposure than a four year old, and you as a person are subject to low levels of radiation every second of the day. If I walk up to a force 50 nuclear elemental, that should be like walking into a nuclear reactor that has just finished melting down, but force 1? That's like walking around every day.
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hyzmarca
post Dec 7 2008, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE
Keep in mind that radiation dosages are subjective and involve the gm saying "Now you have X level"


Actually, radiation levels are specifically defined by the amount of sieverts absorbed. This means that smart players can actually make radiation exposure far too much trouble for the GM to ever bother with, by demanding that the GM calculate radiation exposure precisely in sieverts.
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Maelstrome
post Dec 7 2008, 02:13 AM
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(from what little i've read about radiation poisoning)
the amount of radiation being emitted is determined by the amount of energy and radiation source contains. seeing as a radiation elemental is pure harmful radiation energy i would say a force one spirit could make you sick rather quickly but not exactly kill you a force 4 or more probably would kill you rather quickly (a few hours im guessing). but unless you that toxic punk using them i doubt youll have that problem. i say force 8 or higher would pose a significant threat to humans. forces higher than ten would probably cook most think real quick like.

anyone else thinking of unique enchantments powered by radiation spirits?
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hobgoblin
post Dec 7 2008, 02:15 AM
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easy, the amount of damage boxes done after initial body test of an exposure is the number of SV's picked up...
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Hagga
post Dec 7 2008, 04:27 AM
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Divided by 100. You pick up a fair bit of radiation each day.
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hyzmarca
post Dec 7 2008, 04:38 AM
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I also have to wonder how the called shot rules effect radiation damage. The N-value of the brain is only .05, while the N-value of the gonads is .2, 4 times higher. Which means that a called shot to the testicles with a neutron gun is 4 times worse than a called shot to the brain is, though the called shot to the head is probably more likely to be fatal.
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TheOOB
post Dec 7 2008, 08:07 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Dec 6 2008, 11:38 PM) *
I also have to wonder how the called shot rules effect radiation damage. The N-value of the brain is only .05, while the N-value of the gonads is .2, 4 times higher. Which means that a called shot to the testicles with a neutron gun is 4 times worse than a called shot to the brain is, though the called shot to the head is probably more likely to be fatal.


Well it works like this, for every -1 you give your dice pool, your DV goes up by 1. Just because your target changes doesn't change how the called shot rules work.
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Hagga
post Dec 7 2008, 08:14 AM
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They're likely to stock up on Potassium Iodide if given any warning, too.
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Cabral
post Dec 7 2008, 08:37 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Dec 7 2008, 12:38 AM) *
I also have to wonder how the called shot rules effect radiation damage. The N-value of the brain is only .05, while the N-value of the gonads is .2, 4 times higher. Which means that a called shot to the testicles with a neutron gun is 4 times worse than a called shot to the brain is, though the called shot to the head is probably more likely to be fatal.

That depends on his self-image (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Tho, I guess they could always drop you another pair ...
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hobgoblin
post Dec 7 2008, 10:47 AM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Dec 7 2008, 05:27 AM) *
Divided by 100. You pick up a fair bit of radiation each day.


well i was just going by the stuff in arsenal, and it said a mild dose would be 1-2SV...
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Rad
post Dec 7 2008, 12:32 PM
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This totally makes me want a full-auto Graser.
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hobgoblin
post Dec 7 2008, 12:42 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)
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AngelisStorm
post Dec 7 2008, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Dec 7 2008, 03:14 AM) *
They're likely to stock up on Potassium Iodide if given any warning, too.


Amen. Nuclear spirits (or anything with radiation damage) are the scariest (general) spirits I recall reading. I just hope my GM never notices them.
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Rad
post Dec 7 2008, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Dec 7 2008, 04:42 AM) *


Gama Ray Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation

In short: a gama-ray laser.
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AllTheNothing
post Dec 7 2008, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History @ Dec 6 2008, 07:52 PM) *
Two things.


This is what is called a "false assumption." By your logic even a character in a rad suit would die from radiation poisoning. Your basic assumption that a nuclear elemental is the same as Mild Radiation Poisoning is spurious; you conveniently ignore the fact that the rules for radiation elemental damage specifically states that the character damaged by the attack develops light radiation poisoning, which increase in severity as the dosage of radiation increases. So starting out at Moderate radiation poisoning is more than a little silly, especially if the damage is reduced to zero.

Second, Digital Grimoire introduces the decontamination, radiation barrier, and radiation shield spells.



So it has come for me the day to agreed with you oh master of the twisted way of knowledge.
No realy a great dragon would just have spit on a force 1 spirit to get rid of it or if you want cast a force 1 manastatic.
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