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> Trodes, Simrigs and Datajacks
Carriage
post Dec 13 2008, 11:56 PM
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What are the advantages, disadvantages and reasons of taking these over each other. As far as i can tell, they all do essentially the same thing but the 'trodes are much cheaper.
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hobgoblin
post Dec 14 2008, 12:39 AM
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simrig is a recording system.

datajack is also a data storage device, and two can be plugged together via fiber optics to perform brain to brain conversations...
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TheOOB
post Dec 14 2008, 02:13 AM
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You don't need a simrig to connect two datajacks together and have conversation, but you would need one to record you simsense data and send it over.

A datajack has almost no advantage over a trode net. They do exact ally the same thing and both are equally efficient at it, the only difference is that you always have your jack with you and it's harder to hack a wired connection then a wireless (unless you have a set of wired trodes). A datajack does have some internal storage which you can access at will, which is great if you have know or linguasofts and don't want to have to maintain a DNI with your commlink.
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KCKitsune
post Dec 15 2008, 01:56 AM
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QUOTE (TheOOB @ Dec 13 2008, 09:13 PM) *
A datajack does have some internal storage which you can access at will, which is great if you have know or linguasofts and don't want to have to maintain a DNI with your commlink.


Or you can plug a datachip into it and have gigapulses of data easily accessible.
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TheOOB
post Dec 15 2008, 03:33 AM
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In other words, unless you use a DNI heavily, and are worried about people within 3 meters direct ally hacking into your DNI without going through your commlink first, a datajack isn't much better then trodes.
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hobgoblin
post Dec 15 2008, 03:46 AM
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even trodes can use fiberoptic or skinlink connection to the comlink...
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The Jake
post Dec 15 2008, 04:27 AM
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I still don't understand how they had a massive leap in tech so that trodes moved from being so archaic to "in" within a few short years.

I really don't think they realised that they've all but made the datajack useless except as a cheap (both in essence and nuyen) replacement for headware memory.

Why would you even bother when you can use trodes, AR gloves and a regular commlink?

- J.
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GreyBrother
post Dec 15 2008, 09:27 AM
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They were archaic in the early 60ties? I thought they were more perceived as "too slow for a novahot decker"
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The Jake
post Dec 15 2008, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE (GreyBrother @ Dec 15 2008, 10:27 AM) *
They were archaic in the early 60ties? I thought they were more perceived as "too slow for a novahot decker"


No. Trodes were OLD in 2050s actually.

What I'm saying is that there is no ingame penalty for using trodes in 2070 whereas in 2050 the penalties were huge.

I don't understand how it changed between SR3-SR4 as that is when the change took place. It makes no sense to me.

- J.
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GreyBrother
post Dec 15 2008, 01:09 PM
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Explains my feeling of Anachronism when i read about todays trodenets.
I really thought they were just to slow...
Then again, is it that important? Maybe they were archaic for a decker, since most SR Books are actually written for Runner? So it's just subjective for the Shadows?
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Malachi
post Dec 15 2008, 03:04 PM
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I believe in SR3 that a 'trode net could only go as fast as Cold Sim. Although it might not be RAW, I've implemented the same rule in my game: only Commlinks implanted or connected via datajack can go Hot Sim speeds. This at least gives a reason for the "real" Hackers to go the Datajack route.

However, I was puzzled/saddened/disappointed that much of the "gear" in SR4 has made the cybered equivalent obsolete, including the 'trode Net/datajack situation.
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ornot
post Dec 15 2008, 03:29 PM
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On the one hand it's nice that mages and adepts can use the matrix without incurring essence loss, but it does render the datalink implant nigh useless.

Same goes for smartlink; used to be the cyber version gave a better bonus than the external version. Of course, now you don't need an illegal/restricted implant, meaning it's easier for sams to get places without setting off security scanners everywhere.

I quite like Franktrollman's alternate rules as far as trodes go. His fluff has the trode signal more prone to intermmitant signal loss. I don't recall what, if any, mechanics he used, or whether they're compatible with RAW. The alternative would be to remove them as a houserule, and force non-jacked folk to use senselink and AR gloves.
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Malachi
post Dec 15 2008, 04:09 PM
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Frank's Matrix rules are a complete replacement for the existing Matrix rules. However, there is nothing saying you can't use just pieces of it.
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hobgoblin
post Dec 15 2008, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (ornot @ Dec 15 2008, 04:29 PM) *
or whether they're compatible with RAW.


frank's matrix rules are just a collection of house rules, so dont freak out about the "compatiblity" issue...

from what i understand, its meant to replace the SR4 matrix rules, not live alongside them...

its quite similar to good old raygun and his replacement firearms system for SR1-3 (or was it 2-3?)...
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ornot
post Dec 15 2008, 05:09 PM
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I was mostly wondering about simply inserting Frank's fluff about trode nets relative unreliability into RAW. I am aware that Frank's rules were a wholesale replacement of the RAW for the matrix.

I rather liked a lot of the aspects he introduced, including making TMs actually something to worry about. Seems to me that per RAW the only way to make TMs effective seems to be sprite abuse, and hyperspecialisation in one niche of the matrix at the expense of any other skills at all! OK. I am guilty of hyperbole, but it does seem that the most effective TM builds function in a manner quite unlike the fluff would indicate.

I distantly remember Raygun posting back when I first joined DS. Any idea where he went?
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hobgoblin
post Dec 15 2008, 05:14 PM
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probably off to play SR2 or something.

as for making TM's something to worry about, dont really see the need. im not sure one always have to echo whats in the fluff by whats in the rules, as the fluff is just as often taken from the media and other sources.

the TM worry the world as he cant be detected by a cyberware scanner, yet can access a computer system, not really because he can do it better then a hacker can.

its a case of fear of the unknown. yes, the informed users of jackpoint may know that TM is not all up to the hype, but does joe wageslave know that?
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Malachi
post Dec 15 2008, 08:25 PM
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There are only a few Matrix things that I feel need to be houseruled. 'Trode Nets being one, and limiting the number of Matrix Actions that can be taken per round, when not using a DNI device is another. Even for someone with Technologically or Magically enhanced reflexes, manipulating computers using physical movements can only happen "so" fast, whereas controlling a device with your mind should always be faster. Period.
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wanderer_king
post Dec 15 2008, 08:38 PM
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Trodes use wires to connect to your brain... implant commlinks with simrigs don't.... one player in my game was using trodes for smartlink (he was an adept, and didn't want to lose essence) he found one downside when a razorboy cut the trodes cable to his head... its much much harder to get an implant commlink....
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Malachi
post Dec 15 2008, 08:42 PM
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Nanopaste Trodes would eliminate that complication, though, wouldn't they?
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Jaid
post Dec 15 2008, 08:45 PM
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on the other hand, the sam could also have just cut a hole in the adept's head. it's not as if the wire is trailing 20 feet behind the adept and attached to the wall or something... if you take a swing at the adept's wire, the adept should get to defend against it... and in that case, an attack against the wire *could* have been an attack against the adept directly. not really a very strong argument, imo.
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Fortune
post Dec 15 2008, 08:45 PM
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QUOTE (wanderer_king)
Trodes use wires to connect to your brain


Trodes do not automatically utilize wires. Trodes are perfectly capable of being totally wireless (even to the point of coming in the form of a nanopaste alternative), and can be adapted for skinlink.
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AllTheNothing
post Dec 15 2008, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Dec 15 2008, 11:55 AM) *
No. Trodes were OLD in 2050s actually.

What I'm saying is that there is no ingame penalty for using trodes in 2070 whereas in 2050 the penalties were huge.

I don't understand how it changed between SR3-SR4 as that is when the change took place. It makes no sense to me.

- J.



Jake just think about it trodes have improved because someone with alot of money have seen uses in their development and invested in them. Who might be? Someone that cares about essence and would go insane with a datajack, that has alot of money and can call for research in the field. I think everyone has already got who I'm talking about, so I'll let someone else spell the name.
In bocca al lupo.
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wanderer_king
post Dec 16 2008, 12:01 AM
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He was afraid of having his gear wireless (he was incompetent at hacking) so it was wired with a datacable. He could not use skinlinks as he was wearing a full body armor suit (which included gloves; the entire group started wearing full armor suits with chemical protections after a small incident where they were hired to steal some VX gas and dropped a canister, killing half the group.) I don't allow skinlinks through gloves (as the description clearly states that you need contact with Metahuman skin. Anyway' with katana vs bodysuit and no strength augmentations he could hit the adept and couldn't do piddly for damage. So called shot to cable for denial of smartlinks.
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Fortune
post Dec 16 2008, 12:16 AM
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Even with that rule, there should be no reason why the gloves, or even the armor could not be Skinlinked.
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The Jake
post Dec 16 2008, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (Malachi @ Dec 15 2008, 09:25 PM) *
There are only a few Matrix things that I feel need to be houseruled. 'Trode Nets being one, and limiting the number of Matrix Actions that can be taken per round, when not using a DNI device is another. Even for someone with Technologically or Magically enhanced reflexes, manipulating computers using physical movements can only happen "so" fast, whereas controlling a device with your mind should always be faster. Period.


I would agree with that 100%.

QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Dec 16 2008, 12:36 AM) *
Jake just think about it trodes have improved because someone with alot of money have seen uses in their development and invested in them. Who might be? Someone that cares about essence and would go insane with a datajack, that has alot of money and can call for research in the field. I think everyone has already got who I'm talking about, so I'll let someone else spell the name.
In bocca al lupo.


This is an assumption however and not fact. If it was stated as such in the rulebook I'd be a lot happier. As it stands, the rules all but infer there is no difference between the use of trodes and/or DNI via. datajack or internal commlink.

There really needs to be some clarification around this.

- J.
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