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> Creating an AI PC, Little confused
Socinus
post Dec 14 2008, 07:45 PM
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Im attempting to create an AI character to play but the Runner's Companion book is a little misty on AI PCs and drones.

"While a metasapient (AI) may reside in a drone, and even use a drone as its home node, it may not “jump into� a drone or other rigged device, as it has no motor cortex with which to interface."

That doesnt make too much sense as its an AI, it should be able to do something as BASIC as controlling a drone. Maybe with a Pilot program?

Does this mean that an AI can move between rigged devices and drones but cant, like a rigger, go comatose and control something remotely?
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Ryu
post Dec 14 2008, 07:52 PM
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It does mean that an AI without Pilot Origin can move between the matrix nodes of drones, but not jump into a drone. Jumping in is not equal to loading onto.
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hobgoblin
post Dec 14 2008, 08:00 PM
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think of it this way, a pilot/AI is just like a command program with a logic system bolted on.

a rigger "jumping into" a drone, basically replaces his normal body senses with a collection of sensor and other data from the drone, translated into those same real body senses.

so when he makes the drone drive forward, he experiences it like walking or running, and so on.

basically, one attempts to hijack the collection of reflexes that nature have created over generations.

sometimes i wish that catalyst could put some of the old fluff text from the old rigger books online, as there was some really good first hand account in there.
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Socinus
post Dec 14 2008, 08:23 PM
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Ok, so what other considerations should there be for an AI character?
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Ryu
post Dec 14 2008, 08:28 PM
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- Decide if your home node is an important tool or a basic requirement. Risking one node is like risking one metahuman body, it can be dealt with.

- Decide on a purpose, preferably something else than "breakingly good at matrix stuff".
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Socinus
post Dec 14 2008, 09:10 PM
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Im having trouble figuring out Autosofts in relation to AIs

I want to use the Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly or a MCT Fly-Spy as a perminant node for the AI but they have Autosofts and Im not sure what they do in relation to the AI using it as a home node.

Also since they are micro-drones, what exactly are the limitations with tricking it out?
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tricwebs
post Dec 14 2008, 11:27 PM
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Depends on what you mean by tricked out. So far, I haven't' been able to find any rules about limiting the Response and Signal ratings on equipment. As for the other modifications, Arsenal p129 lists the minimum number of modification slots as 4, so those micro and mini drones could have any combination (short of specific mod restrictions) that fills those slots. As far as the autosofts, the ones listed come preloaded for the drone's Pilot program. An AI can't use the autosoft program of the drone, unless it has the 10 BP version of the Piloting Origin quality.
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hobgoblin
post Dec 14 2008, 11:53 PM
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max rating, unless otherwise specified, is 6...

both response and signal is based of hardware, and those are found in the table on page 240, SR4/BBB.

one can however up the signal to 9 by getting a sat link.

remember, the drones brain/computer is just a built in comlink running the pilot software rather then a normal comlink os, and so it can be modified and/or upgraded by comlink rules.
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Ryu
post Dec 15 2008, 05:15 AM
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QUOTE (Socinus @ Dec 14 2008, 10:10 PM) *
Im having trouble figuring out Autosofts in relation to AIs

I want to use the Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly or a MCT Fly-Spy as a perminant node for the AI but they have Autosofts and Im not sure what they do in relation to the AI using it as a home node.

Also since they are micro-drones, what exactly are the limitations with tricking it out?

AI can use autsofts if they have the 10 BP version of Pilot Origins.

If they don´t have that, they still have the Pilot programs their drones come with. Pilot programs don´t have edge (large difference), but can profit from the high System and Response of the AI home node.

Micro-drones only take micro-drone upgrades?
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GreyBrother
post Dec 15 2008, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (Ryu @ Dec 15 2008, 06:15 AM) *
AI can use Drone Autsofts if they have the 10 BP version of Pilot Origins.

Corrected you here. They can use Agent Autosofts per default.
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Socinus
post Dec 15 2008, 07:16 PM
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Would there be any benefit to having my AI inhabit a Nexus that was contained inside a vehicle or a large drone?
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Ryu
post Dec 15 2008, 07:38 PM
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You could easily move your home node around (physically). A nexus would permit you to run even more programs without response degradation - If you were not limited by your AI rating. Since that isn´t the case, you would be better off choosing the vehicle as your home node, and use the nexus to run a horde of agent minions.
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Socinus
post Dec 15 2008, 08:43 PM
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I used a Horseman and left room for a Nexus in the driver's space. I put a retrans unit and a sat uplink in as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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The Jake
post Dec 15 2008, 08:57 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Dec 14 2008, 09:00 PM) *
think of it this way, a pilot/AI is just like a command program with a logic system bolted on.

a rigger "jumping into" a drone, basically replaces his normal body senses with a collection of sensor and other data from the drone, translated into those same real body senses.

so when he makes the drone drive forward, he experiences it like walking or running, and so on.

basically, one attempts to hijack the collection of reflexes that nature have created over generations.

sometimes i wish that catalyst could put some of the old fluff text from the old rigger books online, as there was some really good first hand account in there.


I agree. This sort of 'fluff' helps players and GMs alike to understand the mechanics. As much as I like SR4, this is an issue that is replete throughout all sourcebooks.

- J.
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Neraph
post Dec 16 2008, 12:51 AM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Dec 14 2008, 05:53 PM) *
max rating, unless otherwise specified, is 6...

both response and signal is based of hardware, and those are found in the table on page 240, SR4/BBB.

one can however up the signal to 9 by getting a sat link.

remember, the drones brain/computer is just a built in comlink running the pilot software rather then a normal comlink os, and so it can be modified and/or upgraded by comlink rules.

Signal 8 is satellite link.

That aside, everyone who makes an AI character MUST remember this:
QUOTE (Runner)
Being the home of an AI puts a strain on the node's resources, both hardware and software. A node must be kept in top condition, with the latest upgrades and technology, in order for it to continue to serve without breaking down. This cost is analogous to metahuman lifestyle costs, and an AI must arrange payment of this upkeep or risk losing its home.
(Emphasis Added)

QUOTE (Runner)
Base Device Rating - Lifestyle
1 - Squatter
2-3 - Low
4-5 - Middle
6 - High
7+ - Luxury
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hobgoblin
post Dec 16 2008, 04:03 AM
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i think ill toss a rndom thought in here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

after rereading the agent movement rules it dawned on me that a interesting AI consept would be to have it live in a comlink stashed in a warehose, offline most of the time, but would upload itself to a anthro drone or van when going on a run.
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Ryu
post Dec 16 2008, 06:34 AM
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You could have a pilot origin AI that changes bodies regulary. (Well, you could in our comparativly well-paying campaigns.) The extended test required for that should not take more than 2-3 days, that could be done during run preparation time. Solid home nodes are not that expensive. Body stashes...
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hobgoblin
post Dec 16 2008, 12:07 PM
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thing is, im not talking about moving the home node, it will be tucked away in the warehouse.

it just loads itself into either the vehicle or drone, just like a agent moving between nodes (unwired,p110). and can remote control the other as needed, using command software.

thing is, this could allow a AI to bypass wirelss blockage by moving itself into say a cleaning drone at some office and moving the drone into the blocked of area.

or even ride some workers comlink for same effect.
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GreyBrother
post Dec 16 2008, 05:06 PM
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My AI PC inhabits an old Bunker-like basement. He does such stuff, but not much with drones. He prefers to hijack drones and nodes if he is in need of more "resources". He even sometimes does that "social engineering" thing and tells people stuff like "Do you see the guy with the sunglasses over the street? He wants to shoot everybody in a mall. You better call Lonestar."
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Neraph
post Dec 16 2008, 05:45 PM
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The easiest way to run AI PCs is to get a group lifestyle.

The Manor
Categories:
Middle Comforst (3), High Entertainment (4), Middle Neccessities (3), Luxury Neighborhood (6), Luxury Security (6).
Categories Total: 22.
Qualities: Homegrown Farming (+1), Workplace (+1), Free Access (+1), Fung Shui (+5).
Qualities Total: +8.
Total Lifestyle Cost: 100,000 (+10,000 per additional person); 150,000 for 6 people (25,000 per person).

That's what my group is using, and the AI is using the Central Home Node as his Home Node (we also attached a Satellite Link to it), so he's using a R6 Node (8 Signal) increased by 1/2 his rating, with an additional like -2 threshold for Tracking him (or whatever it is for Free Access). And it's affordable for a group.
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Jaid
post Dec 16 2008, 06:13 PM
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the AI can't really do group lifestyles. the AI's lifestyle is not compatible because that's just the cost of keeping their node running in perfect condition. it's not that an AI pays 10k for the privilege of sitting in an R6 node for a month, it's that they exert greater wear-and-tear on that node than normal, and the money is spent fixing up said wear-and-tear.
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Neraph
post Dec 16 2008, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Dec 16 2008, 12:13 PM) *
the AI can't really do group lifestyles. the AI's lifestyle is not compatible because that's just the cost of keeping their node running in perfect condition. it's not that an AI pays 10k for the privilege of sitting in an R6 node for a month, it's that they exert greater wear-and-tear on that node than normal, and the money is spent fixing up said wear-and-tear.

Actually, yes they can. We are all paying for bits of the wear and tear on the Central Home Node, and he's enjoying living in it. Or by your logic do you see the above example as an end cost of 240,000? 100,000 for the AI, and 140,000 for everyone else?
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Jaid
post Dec 16 2008, 06:41 PM
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well, first off, you're using an R6 node, which is equivalent to high rating, which means it costs 10k per month anyways, so the overall value is correct.

however, if your AI's lifestyle cost was actually not coincidentally the same as the cost for an extra person added onto a luxury lifestyle, then i am saying that yes, you would in fact need to add the two amounts together. there is no shared costs between the groups. AIs are not paying for a lifestyle, they are paying costs to maintain their node which just so happens (largely for metagame reasons of convenience and keeping other players happy, i suspect) to cost the same as the various lifestyle levels. if they want an actual lifestyle, they are going to have to actually buy a lifestyle, and quite frankly if the AI PC has their home node physically in the same 'home' with the rest of the group i likely wouldn't charge anything for the AI other than it's regular costs for maintaining it's home node. it wouldn't pay 10% because it doesn't eat, it doesn't use water, it doesn't go to the movies, etc. i suppose it might conceivably be expected to chip in for security level, because it does at least benefit from that, but other than that, there isn't really any overlap. the AI's node maintenance costs are not an actual lifestyle cost, it's just the cost for maintaining their node at peak performance.
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