Dual Natured Quandries Options

[TheOOB]

Lets say I am playing a dual-natured critter (a fox shapeshifter for the sake of argument).

-Do I maintain my natural weapons in the astral plane, and if so, does a shapeshifter have to be in animal form to use them(they are always in animal form in the astral plane).

-Can I hide the fact that I am dual natured with the masking metamagic?

[Glyph]

I assume they use the normal astral combat rules, since it doesn't say differently. If they got the advantage of their natural weapons astrally, it would have been mentioned.

I am unsure if they can hide the fact that they are dual-natured. They can hide their true form, and magicians with masking can normally disguise themselves to look like mundanes, but I am not sure if they can hide being dual-natured. Since masking works by creating a false aura, though, I would assume so.

[AllTheNothing]

I thought that shifters on astral always look like animals even when in human form.
This if you don't factor masking.

P.S.
Masking can be taken by adepts too.

[TheOOB]

I know they can change their aura to look like a human with masking(Runners Companion specifically mentions it) but the question is can you hide the fact that there is an astral form there.

Maybe there would need to be a metamagic that allows astral invisibility?

[Stahlseele]

no, there is only the concealment power that allows complete disappearing

[Caadium]

-Can I hide the fact that I am dual natured with the masking metamagic?

(from the BBB) A character who learns masking can change the appearance of her aura/astral form to do the following:

• look mundane
• look as though her Magic is higher or lower than it is (+/– your grade of initiation)
  
• or look as though she is a different type of astral creature.

I don't see why the fox couldn't use those two parts of masking to look like a mundane human instead of a fox shifter. Of course, someone can possibly see through the masking but, as they say, "thems the risks."

[TheOOB]

Yes, but can it make it so an astral form just looks like an aura? A normal metahuman doesn't exist on the astral plane, they just reflex an aura that is intangible. A dual natured create does exist though, they are tangible and existent. As far as I can tell the best masking can do is make you look like an astrally perceiving metahuman.

[AllTheNothing]

I know they can change their aura to look like a human with masking(Runners Companion specifically mentions it) but the question is can you hide the fact that there is an astral form there.

Maybe there would need to be a metamagic that allows astral invisibility?

Astral Mimetism

prerequisites:
Masking, Flexible Signature

Astral Mimetism allowes the user to to blend with sorrounding astral space using masking metamagic; it works the same way of regular masking but if the observer fails to penetrate the masing aura he sees as if the character was not there, the metamagic doesn't affect properties of auras and astral forms and an astral forms that dumps in the auras of the user will feel that there is something there that can't be assensed.

Yes, but can it make it so an astral form just looks like an aura? A normal metahuman doesn't exist on the astral plane, they just reflex an aura that is intangible. A dual natured create does exist though, they are tangible and existent. As far as I can tell the best masking can do is make you look like an astrally perceiving metahuman.

Maybe masking makes you look just an aura, until someone tryes to traverse your aura (just an aura, it's not solid) and hits you.

In bocca al lupo.

[Hagga]

If a dual natured critter walks into a mana void, do they go dormant the way dragons do until removed or death?

[Neraph]

If a dual natured critter walks into a mana void, do they go dormant the way dragons do until removed or death?

I'd say no; they instead lose all magical abilities and all critter powers except the usuals ([Hardened] Armor, Natural Attack...).

[TheOOB]

Most creatures who have their magic reduced to zero lose all their racial abilities except sapience, improved senses, and natural weapons, which means a shapeshifter who goes into a void higher then their magic loses both dual natured, shift(human), and regeneration, effectively becoming a smart skilled animal until (or if) they gain a magic score again.

I like the astral mimetism metamagic, good for any magician(astral invisibility, whats not to like), especially good for dual natured critters. Wondering about the flexible signature requirement though, the metamagic doesn't do anything to alter a magicians signatures.

[AllTheNothing]

If a dual natured critter walks into a mana void, do they go dormant the way dragons do until removed or death?

Street Magic p.120 states that manavoids deal a number of boxes of phisical damage equal to their absolute value, this damage is resisted with Body by dual natured being (astral perceiving are dual natured) and with Willpower by purely astral being (astral projecting are considered purely astral until they reenter in their own bodies).

In bocca al lupo.

[Neraph]

Street Magic p.120 states that manavoids deal a number of boxes of phisical damage equal to their absolute value, this damage is resisted with Body by dual natured being (astral perceiving are dual natured) and with Willpower by purely astral being (astral projecting are considered purely astral until they reenter in their own bodies).

In bocca al lupo.

Well there ya go then.

[AllTheNothing]

Well there ya go then.

......? What you mean?

In bocca al lupo.

[TheOOB]

If I am correct, and astral barrier blocks a dual natured beings physical movement. What are some ways a dual natured being can get through wards, and is there any way to do it with out alerting the ward creator.

[Muspellsheimr]

Masking allows you to bypass Wards; described in Street Magic (I don't have a page reference at the moment).

Otherwise, you can attempt to force your way through; described in BBB (again, no page reference).

Masking allows you to change your aura to look mundane. While it can change your astral from to look mundane, this is redundant as it cannot remove your astral form, & mundanes do not have an astral form (meaning anyone looking at you will reach one of two conclusions - Masking, or Astral Gateway)

[Raizer]

What about a house rule for creating an advanced version of masking that would allow a dual nature creature to turn off its dual naturedness? What do you all think of that idea?

[Muspellsheimr]

That would be interesting, possible, & possibly (but unlikely) overpowering.

[Fortune]

What about a house rule for creating an advanced version of masking that would allow a dual nature creature to turn off its dual naturedness? What do you all think of that idea?

Not in my games.

[TheOOB]

Not in my games.

What if you use a metamagic(like listed above) that gives you astral invisibility, and it also lets you pass through a ward unnoticed without the creators knowledge, but taking a penalty to the roll(likely the same penalty as symbolic ritual casting.)

[toturi]

While it can change your astral from to look mundane, this is redundant as it cannot remove your astral form, & mundanes do not have an astral form (meaning anyone looking at you will reach one of two conclusions - Masking, or Astral Gateway)

Or taking some kind of drug.

[TheOOB]

Of course, there is no rule that says the astral form of a magician has to look human, so people will generally assume you to be a magician of some sort.

[Fortune]

What if you use a metamagic(like listed above) that gives you astral invisibility, and it also lets you pass through a ward unnoticed without the creators knowledge, but taking a penalty to the roll(likely the same penalty as symbolic ritual casting.)

Like Masking on steroids? Why not just use Masking?

As far as I can recall, an awakened person's Astral Form is a stylized or perfect form of himself, based on his subconscious self-image.

[Glyph]

What's interesting is that in SR3, Masking did explicitly allow you to hide being dual-natured.

Masking can also hide a character's dual nature so that they look magical but not astrally present.

This is partly why I leaned towards allowing masking to disguise a dual nature.

[Oni]

p.66 of RC "Shapeshifters are sapient Awakened paranimals of metahuman intelligence with the magical ability to assume a human form."

I'm with fortune, in astral your foxshifter would look like a fox because its an animal.

p.183 of the BBB Astral Forms "Her astral body is a construct of her spirit and will."

I may be assuming but I'd put my nuyen on your foxshifter having the spirit of a fox.

Masking is about as good as its going to get IMO, you'd appear to be a regular fox.

The Esprit "Petite Brume" Grenade might help you. If your trying to dodge magical links try the Flux Adv. Metamagic.

Astral armor may be the best RAW solution to the Dual Natured problem you are having.

Being Dual Natured is just the down side of being a shifter.