reinforced weapon mounts and launch weapons, warrning: probably over the top Options

[hobgoblin]

so im reading the launch wesapons stuff, but find no definitive answer to the number of weapons a aircraft can carry (except the torpedo launch system that turns a mount in to a torpedo launcher).

now im guessing the point is to use weapon mounts (altho not even the eagle comes with more then one), but that still leave some of them very short on ammo (5 for the eagle).

so im thinking, will adding ammo bins up the number of weapons a mount can carry?

if so, the eagle's 5 can be made to carry 3 each. 1 for the mount, and 2 ammo bins (each mount taking up 2 slots, and each bin 1, the eagle have 20 body).

so, am i mad?

[Jekolmy]

An ammo bin is exactly that a ammo bin... if you want more weapons you have to buy weapons mount. If I remember right (I dont have my books open right now) the ammo bin either adds 250 rounds for weapons with normal ammunition types, but only doubles the capactily of a larger system like a rocket launcher.

[hobgoblin]

thing is that lauch weapons are not weapons by the normal definition.

they are just "ammo" hooked onto some connector, and the whole thing goes flying ones fired.

i see btw that i miscalculated the number of mounts on a eagle. its 3, not 6. so unless a ammo bin can be used as i consider, it can at best carry 2 bombs or missiles.

seems a bit low to me, when even a F-16 can carry som 12-14...

i also notice that the striker (patrol corvette) lists a depth charge launcher that i can find no price for...

[Crusher Bob]

The F-16 technically has 11 hard points that you can attach stuff to.
2 'chin' hard points
1 centerline
2 wingtip
2 outer wing
4 inner wing

2 are at the 'chin' of the intake, as are used to attach FLIR pods, laser designators and similar stuff.
There's a centerline hard point that carried either an ECM pod, a fuel tank, or a nuke.
The two innermost wing hard points are 'wet', that is, you can attach fuel tanks to them. Rated for around 3000 pounds.
The next set of hard points can carry as much as the two inner-wing hard points, but they are not 'wet'.
The wingtip and outer wing hardpoints are really only good for AAMs, rater for around 500 pounds each.

Due to the F-16s engine being a large upgrade from its original engine, the two innerwing hard points are almost always used for fuel these days.

Also note that the hardpoints can sometimes carry multiples of the same weapon.

So, for example, IIRC the F-15C has 7 hardpoints, 1 only useful for fuel tanks (I think it is also rated for nukes as well...), 4 recessed hard points on the body of AAMs, and then 2 more hardpoints at the wing roots for a fuel tank + aam combo.

[Jhaiisiin]

SR4 as I understand it has intentionally shied away from military vehicles of this kind so far, and thus the rules don't quite fit to match things up. The best way to do this is to start looking at existing aircraft, and extrapolate from there. While technology will change, SR has made very clear that the basic principle weaponry has not, and thus you're going to end up with similar loadouts to today's aircraft. Bob has already very nicely outlined two of the US's primary fighters right now. It's also worth looking at the F/A-18, the F-14, and the F-22 for additional ideas and loadout setups.

Don't forget that somewhere in all of this, you're also running with an internal 20mm, 6-barrel rotary cannon and they carry a few hundred rounds at the minimum, and usually up to about 1500 rounds if memory serves. The only (recent) aircraft I can remember off the top of my head that *didn't* include an internal gun were the F-4 Phantom II and the Harrier jumpjets. They ditched the internal guns thinking dogfighting was going away in favor of missiles, then put it back when they realized their fubar.

[Crusher Bob]

Also, to make things more complicated, the hard points and/or the whole airframe will only be rated to a certain G level at a certain weight.

For example, for the F-16 rough G limits:
A2A load only - 9G
A2A load + empty wing fuel tanks - 8.5G
A2A load + full wing fuel tanks - 6.5 G
A2G load (i.e. bombs) - 5.5 G

In general, if you pull more Gs than that, you risk breaking bits in the airplane from the stress.

[hobgoblin]

thing is that as it stands right now there are two readings of the launch weapons:

1. only one launch weapon pr mount. leading to the eagle having 1 more round available to it vs the brat.

2. launch weapons do not use mounts. can i in other words bolt 40 outlaws of various types to said brat?

i want to see something between those, and right now, this is what "makes" sense going by the content of the book at hand.

and if they dont want military gear they should not have included the outlaws (maverick/hellfires by another name (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) and the high end laser and gauss guns.

those, a matching turret, truck, tracked option and some armor and one is looking at the makings of a tank.

the only things missing are the battleships, carriers and ballistic nuclear subs, everything else is available.

[Crusher Bob]

The one missile per tank is a very expensive, dangerous, and time consuming way to deal with targets from the air. For a preference, pick something like the CBU-97 with the WCMD tail kit. Drop four of them in 2 pairs. Your beaten zone is roughly 900m x 300m. Any armored vehicles in that area have a very good chance of being hit. Never come closer than ~10 miles lateral miles from the target, and do your drop from 20,000+ feet. Ideally, the first sign the guys on the ground have that anything is wrong is everything exploding. Using 40 missiles requires you hang around long enough to use all 40, which will be very dangerous for your precious airframe and your precious self.

[hobgoblin]

sounds like block I outlaw then...

still, the 40 missiles example was mostly me going hyperbole on the rules.

but i would settle for maybe 6-8 missiles, bombs or a mix of said.

couple of aim-27 for self defense, and outlaws or hail barrage pods for the rest.

funny enough, with the hail barrage being a ammo based weapon, it can make use of said bins.

one could go from 20 to anything, as the bins just double the ammo in it...

120 rockets you say? no problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jaid]

was gonna say, to represent your multiple missile hardpoints, just mount a missile launcher that has the appropriate amount of ammo. as long as you don't try to change the mechanics for it, i see no reason you couldn't reflavor things so that you're mounting each missile on a separate hardpoint, but it still functions as 1 (or 2, or 3, or however many actual missile launchers you have on there) weapons mechanically.

[hobgoblin]

only that i dont think launch weapons fit inside a normal missile launcher (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)