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> How to easily kill ghouls/vampiers with ease, mana static
masterofm
post Dec 18 2008, 07:45 PM
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So when using mana static after someone astrally projects and your mana static beats their magic stat they die. Also an infected character who's magic drops to zero dies hitting a ghoul or vampire with a high powered mana static that drops their magic to zero will explicitly kill them. The biggest question I have is why is mana static so awesome?
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Zormal
post Dec 18 2008, 08:20 PM
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I thought runners companion said that the infected characters lose their powers (so... don't die) when their magic hits 0, and I'd recon even this is temporary (though this part is debatable).

Where did you read the rules on dying?

Still... Mana static is awesome (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Fortune
post Dec 18 2008, 08:40 PM
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Mana Static is broken!
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Method
post Dec 18 2008, 08:52 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something, but the rules for background count on page 118 of SM don't say anything about astrally projecting magicians dying, or paranormal critters or dual natured beings for that matter.

EDIT: Unless you are refering to the rules for mana voids/warps on page 120?
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BishopMcQ
post Dec 18 2008, 09:08 PM
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The closest I can come up with for "easy killing" is that with Mana Static, presuming you drop the Infected's Magic to 0, the Regeneration power doesn't work. Without that putting them back together again, it would certainly be easier to kill them.

I disagree that Mana Static is an instant kill spell and would like to see a quote.
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AllTheNothing
post Dec 18 2008, 10:11 PM
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Mana Static should should be cast at a such force that it creates a warp in order to kill the infected and only if the infected is dual-natured, and at that force you can simply cast stunbolt and knock the infected out to deliver the coup the grace later (damage inflicted by magic can't be regenerated), or if you preferes you can go down with manabolt (in both cases the drain is lower than Mana Static).
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Dragnar
post Dec 19 2008, 01:01 AM
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Yeah, mana static is an absurdly powerfull spell with 101 useful applications, but this isn't one of them.
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Wesley Street
post Dec 19 2008, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (masterofm @ Dec 18 2008, 02:45 PM) *
Also an infected character who's magic drops to zero dies hitting a ghoul or vampire with a high powered mana static that drops their magic to zero will explicitly kill them.

From page 77, Runner's Companion:
QUOTE
If an Infected character's Magic attribute is reduced to 0 (temporarily or permanently), it loses the use of all its powers except Natural Weapon and Enhanced Senses, if any.

So, no. Mana static doesn't kill them.
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TheOOB
post Dec 19 2008, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Dec 19 2008, 02:23 PM) *
From page 77, Runner's Companion:

So, no. Mana static doesn't kill them.


But without the essence drain power some infected would die, but most likely not when you are sustaining a spell.
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Apathy
post Dec 19 2008, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (TheOOB @ Dec 19 2008, 01:30 PM) *
But without the essence drain power some infected would die, but most likely not when you are sustaining a spell.

I would think that the assumption is that once the critter leaves the mana warp, and its magic rises back above zero, that it's powers would return. Granted, it's not explictly stated (temporary loss or permanent loss) either way.
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pbangarth
post Dec 19 2008, 07:08 PM
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Yes, all such losses would be temporary. Would a magician permanently lose magic while walking through a mana warp?

Peter
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Method
post Dec 19 2008, 07:13 PM
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I think its also implied that the magic loss is relative. They might not actually "loose" their magic attribute. It is just effectively rendered zero by the mana warp/void.
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Wesley Street
post Dec 19 2008, 09:02 PM
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It's my understanding that mana warps, voids, etc. aren't magical sucks or pumps that fill up or take away a PCs mana. They simply affect a character's ability to utilize mana. Once the warp is removed the PC's mana-manipulation abilities (ie: Magic and affiliated skills ratings) return to normal.
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Stahlseele
post Dec 19 2008, 09:44 PM
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damage done by magic can not be regenerated?
ever?
what about elemental spell effects?
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Starmage21
post Dec 19 2008, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 19 2008, 05:44 PM) *
damage done by magic can not be regenerated?
ever?
what about elemental spell effects?


I dont know where those ideas came from. the only damage that cant be regenerated is those that occur from/in the presence of allergens. Even then, they can still heal naturally, they just cannot be healed by the power of Regeneration.
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Kurious
post Dec 19 2008, 10:32 PM
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QUOTE (Starmage21 @ Dec 19 2008, 10:17 PM) *
QUOTE
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 19 2008, 05:44 PM) *
damage done by magic can not be regenerated?
ever?
what about elemental spell effects?

I dont know where those ideas came from. the only damage that cant be regenerated is those that occur from/in the presence of allergens. Even then, they can still heal naturally, they just cannot be healed by the power of Regeneration.


The mainbook entry on Regeneration (pg. 290) stats "Certain types of damage cannot be regenerated with this power... damage to brain and spinal cord... magical damage (weapon foci, combat spells, adept/critter powers)." Exposure to allergens and 'weaknesses' are just additional things that can stop the regeneration power in an infected or shifter.

And to answer your question Stahlseele, I think magic damage can only be healed through 'normal' means (first aid, healing magic)... magic elemental damage included.
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Fortune
post Dec 19 2008, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE (Kurious @ Dec 20 2008, 09:32 AM) *
I think magic damage can only be healed through 'normal' means (first aid, healing magic)... magic elemental damage included.


No. It is Drain that cannot be healed by magical means. Magical damage is just damage, and can be healed by both normal and magical methods.
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Kurious
post Dec 19 2008, 11:06 PM
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Maybe you should read the entire response and the question it was a response too Fortune... kk-thx.

Magic damage to a regenerating creature cannot be regenerated, hence "I think magic damage can only be healed through 'normal' means (first aid, healing magic)... magic elemental damage included."

Drain is not even part of the discussion...
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AllTheNothing
post Dec 19 2008, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (Starmage21 @ Dec 19 2008, 11:17 PM) *
I dont know where those ideas came from. the only damage that cant be regenerated is those that occur from/in the presence of allergens. Even then, they can still heal naturally, they just cannot be healed by the power of Regeneration.



Ok I've been a little ambiguous.
With regenerated I did mean that can't be healed by Regeneration, not that the organism can't heal the damage on its own eventualy. However if you are fighting an infected with regeneration power are you going to give it the time to heal at normal rate (a few days) or are you going to put an end to the matter right away? The issue is an non issue unless either someone is acting stupid or something is not going as it should (the plan for example).
As a side note nothing preventes healing magic to work so prevent it to be applied to the infected, or use stunbolt to knok the fragger out (heal can't do anything on stun) and than deal with the would be healer before finishing the fragger off.
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Fortune
post Dec 20 2008, 01:13 AM
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QUOTE (Kurious @ Dec 20 2008, 10:06 AM) *
Maybe you should read the entire response and the question it was a response too Fortune... kk-thx.


What reason is there to be rude? I followed the thread, and I responded to the quite specific erroneous statement that you made. It is not my fault that your statement was not in fact what you actually meant to say.

QUOTE
Magic damage to a regenerating creature cannot be regenerated ...


If you had said that in the first place, there wouldn't have been any misunderstanding, now would there?

Have a nice day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Whipstitch
post Dec 20 2008, 03:38 AM
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n/m.

It was stupid for me to even go there.
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Larme
post Dec 20 2008, 05:54 AM
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Hey Whip, I don't hear anything from you on Dumpshock for like a year, and then you post just to say nevermind? Come on! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Anyway, I think we've resolved everything, right? Mana static can't kill Infected, but it can help by disabling their powers potentially. But really, like most magical threats, the best way to kill them is blow them up with magic.

I don't really get the fandom for mana static though. It nerfs the mage who casts it just as much as it nerfs everyone else... It can wipe away spirits, but other than that, the mage is just sacrificing his own abilities in exchange for also neutralizing everyone else's. I suppose it would be nice if the mage also had decent combat skills and could fight without magic, but that doesn't seem too likely... Of course, if you get the Filtering metamagic (the one that neutralizes background count, I might have the name wrong) mana static becomes an absolute beast. But am I missing something when it comes to metamagic-free mana static?
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Whipstitch
post Dec 20 2008, 06:32 AM
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To be fair, I was gone because I nearly died, and I was about to be a bit of a dick in my last post, so I think my action's aren't really unwarranted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .
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pbangarth
post Dec 20 2008, 06:33 AM
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*pregnant pause*
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Whipstitch
post Dec 20 2008, 06:53 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rollin.gif)

The important part is that I didn't.

Anyway, I'm a huge Mana Static fan, but I agree that it is mostly useful in a team context; in many ways you are depending on your Samurai to clean house once you drop it. That said, Mana Static doesn't hurt your Astral Combat pools, so a Hermetic with a 7 or 8 logic thanks to his cerebral boosters or drugs can become quite the beastly astral combatant even if he does drop his own Magic attribute down to a 1 with a Mana Static. Really, it comes down to a simple cost vs. benefit analaysis, and I personally think that Mana Static is so good at what it does that I don't really see much reason not to pony up the Karma/bp to have it on my spell list every time I roll up a mage.
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