Voodoo sans Possession? Options

[Tyro]

I love the Voodoo tradition. I love the spirit choices (it has 3 of my favorites - Guardian, Guidance, and Man, only missing Plant to be perfect), and I love that it's a Charisma tradition. I love the flavor. I don't love that it's a Possession tradition.

How hard would it be to rewrite the religion in order to remove the possession aspect? I think it would be a lot easier than writing a new tradition with that much depth and history.

[Zormal]

I've done it. My character had a mentor spirit, who didn't want him to use possession (so he had materializing spirits).

Not sure how well it fits with the tradition, but I did have fun.

Seems we prefer the same spirits (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I've resisted the temptation to make a tradition with Guardian, Guidance, Man and Plant only because it feels a bit too Muchkiney (is that a word?).

[Tyro]

The problem is that Voodoo has a rich tradition based around possession. It's a central part of the religion.

[Zormal]

True. I'm not so versed in the religion, so I just handwaved the whole thing.
Anybody who knows anything about Voodoo would probably go another route.

[Hagga]

I don't think there is. The loa cannot interact directly with the world - they might manifest as part of a natural phenomena, like a storm, or you might hear a whisper in a graveyard, but that's about as far as it goes. Maybe a series of summoning geases?

[Tyro]

I'm using Hoodoo, which is basically the folklore, non-religious African form (it's actually older than the Diaspora religions like Voodoo and Santaria). All I did was change the name, make it non-Possession and change its Drain attribute to Logic (since Hoodoo relies heavily on herbalism, alchemy, sigils and the like).

[Dragnar]

Firstly, from a gameplay point of view, I'd say being a possession tradition (which is generally weaker than materialization) is the main reason for the very good to brilliant spirit set of voodoo priests, as a balancing act, so I'd be reluctant to keep all the spirits while exchanging possession.
Incidentally, logic is a minimally "better" drain attribute than charisma as well (a bit weaker skill set, way better ways of boosting it).
The differences are small, however, so if it doesn't bother your group, don't let that stop you.

Logic drain is easily explained, but from a fluff perspective, voodoo is about as linked to possession as can be imagined (possession was specifically introduced in 2nd to cover voodoo). The powers of Guinée can't physically interact with the real world without the help of a serviteur, and as far as I know, that restriction is part of all the bazillion different denominations of the faith (while they disagree on pretty much every other point).
By the way, "non-religious" isn't fully correct, it just misses the layer of mystification, prayer and everyday importance that only came from mixing the traditions with the christian faith.

[Tyro]

Firstly, from a gameplay point of view, I'd say being a possession tradition (which is generally weaker than materialization) is the main reason for the very good to brilliant spirit set of voodoo priests, as a balancing act, so I'd be reluctant to keep all the spirits while exchanging possession.
Incidentally, logic is a minimally "better" drain attribute than charisma as well (a bit weaker skill set, way better ways of boosting it).
The differences are small, however, so if it doesn't bother your group, don't let that stop you.

Logic drain is easily explained, but from a fluff perspective, voodoo is about as linked to possession as can be imagined (possession was specifically introduced in 2nd to cover voodoo). The powers of Guinée can't physically interact with the real world without the help of a serviteur, and as far as I know, that restriction is part of all the bazillion different denominations of the faith (while they disagree on pretty much every other point).
By the way, "non-religious" isn't fully correct, it just misses the layer of mystification, prayer and everyday importance that only came from mixing the traditions with the christian faith.

I appreciate the clarification. Incidentally, Charisma drain has one major advantage over Logic drain: in the long run, an elf can get his/her Charisma up to 12 (13 with Exceptional Attribute) maximum. The only other drain attribute boosted by a core race is Willpower, which only gets up to 10 (11) max with Dwarves. Also, if you're doing a lot with a build which requires a high Magic stat (i.e. a summoner), it's better to skip the 'ware and go Charisma.

[Jaid]

getting your charisma up to those heights requires that you know the increase charisma spell, and have a force 6 (or 7) sustaining focus, or suffer -2 dice to every other roll you make. and you need to get 6 net hits on your spellcasting test for the increase charisma spell, which is not exactly a sure thing on the first try either.

in comparison, logic can be boosted at a relatively low cost in magic (and you're likely to want to cyber up a little if you are a mage anyways, just for cybereyes, trauma damper, or whatever). so charisma is not likely to be all that useful.

so yeah, at chargen a dwarven mage resisting drain with logic boosted by a cerebral booster rating 2 is going to be 1 point ahead of the elf who resists with charisma. throw in whatever qualities you like on top of that, the dwarf will still come out 1 ahead because the same qualities can be bought. (also, the dwarf can have a longer stun track, which can help with resisting drain as well).

[pbangarth]

An elf can have CHA 8 at chargen, or CHA 9 if she acquires the Exceptional Attribute Quality. Add a Force 3 Sustaining Focus, also available at chargen, and you have a spell enhanced CHA of 11 or 12 at chargen, with no loss of Essence.

The dwarf would have a bit longer stun track and think more clearly... the elf would have more spirits around to serve her and everybody likes her. It's a matter of taste, but all told the elf handles drain better.

Peter

[Jaid]

increase(attribute) must have a force equal to the base attribute you are trying to improve.

so, to improve an attribute which is currently at 8, you need a force 8 sustaining focus... good luck with that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(good try, though, but it has been thought through before)

[pbangarth]

Thanks for pointing that out, Jaid. Funny how the eye glosses over things you don't really want to see, isn't it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

This means I will have to rethink a character I have over in the 800 point thread. Damn.

So, discount what I said above until I rethink things, folks. Sorry for the interruption, now back to your regularly scheduled program...

Peter

[Dakka Dakka]

An elf can have CHA 8 at chargen, or CHA 9 if she acquires the Exceptional Attribute Quality. Add a Force 3 Sustaining Focus, also available at chargen, and you have a spell enhanced CHA of 11 or 12 at chargen, with no loss of Essence.

It does not work that way. You have to cast the Increase Attribute at least at a force equal to the rating of the attribute you want to raise. In your example the elf would have to cast Increase Charisma at force 8 or 9. You can't get that kind of focus at CharGen. Later it costs only 80000¥/90000¥ and 16/18 Karma and has a availibiliy of 32R/36R!

[pbangarth]

Yup. Yup. Got it. Don't rub it in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Peter