Tattoo Conjuring?, Using tattoos in battle? Options

[Socinus]

Would there be a way to create a character that has tattoos and is able to make them come off his body as the animals or spirits they represent to assist the magician in battle?

Furthermore, what practical use period do tattoos have for magic?

[HentaiZonga]

Would there be a way to create a character that has tattoos and is able to make them come off his body as the animals or spirits they represent to assist the magician in battle?

Furthermore, what practical use period do tattoos have for magic?

Normally, tattoos are just used to Quicken spells onto someone, and strengthen the Quickening against counterspelling.

Using it as a Conjuring fetish/focus instead? Heck, I'd allow it.

[Cain]

While there's no strict rule against it, using tattoos as a fetish would defeat the purpose of the restriction; it can't be taken away from you. Individual GM's might allow it, though.

But what can be done is to use the tattoos as pure flavor for the summoning. Instead of appearing from the ether, the tattoo leaps to life, taking the form of the spirit.

[Ryker]

using tattoos as a fetish would defeat the purpose of the restriction; it can't be taken away from you.

Any scratch or bullethole on/ in the tattoo would break the fetish until healed - if the tattoo doesn't need to be redone.

[Cain]

Any scratch or bullethole on/ in the tattoo would break the fetish until healed - if the tattoo doesn't need to be redone.

Except for the fact that Shadowrun combat is abstract. You'd need to implement a Hit Location rule to properly decide if the wound damaged the tattoo, and that's beyond the scope of this conversation.

Besides which, what happens if he's got multiple copies of the same tattoo? Who decides how big the tattoo is? And you you really want to deal with this level of pixel bitching over it?

[Adarael]

While there's no strict rule against it, using tattoos as a fetish would defeat the purpose of the restriction; it can't be taken away from you. Individual GM's might allow it, though.

The volume of White Phosphorus grenades some players carry around begs to differ.
Maybe it's just my games, but if a guy's in a position to take your ring/nose piercing/magical gold bling grill, he's probably also in a position to take your skin. I've never seen a PC in a position to get looted where the looter couldn't also just waste them.

[Metapunk]

if using the tattoo as a fetish, I would as GM rule that depending on size a certain amount of damage from a bladed weapon or bullet would require the player to roll edge versus the determinded amount of damage.

for example a player with a full arm tattoo would have a moderate chance to get a hit on his arm, and I would prolly say about 2 - 3 inflicted DV would have a chance to hit, then I would have the player roll edge against at threshold of (1 x 2 or 3 DV inflicted) if he doesnt make the the threshold, tough luck and byebye fetish. fresh tattoo needed or magical healing

just a way I would try to deal with it, since I like the idea but I also find it very vulnerable

[Metapunk]

sorry for double posting.

could you make a tattoo on a characters knuckles working as a weapons focus?

[Beetle]

sorry for double posting.

could you make a tattoo on a characters knuckles working as a weapons focus?

In my personal opinion, no drekin' way. However, a set of hardliner gloves would do the trick for unarmed weapon foci.

[Cain]

The volume of White Phosphorus grenades some players carry around begs to differ.
Maybe it's just my games, but if a guy's in a position to take your ring/nose piercing/magical gold bling grill, he's probably also in a position to take your skin. I've never seen a PC in a position to get looted where the looter couldn't also just waste them.

Yeah, but fetishes aren't astrally active. You would never be able to tell they were fetishes. If they were captured and stripped naked, they guy could still have hidden fetishes.

[Immortal Elf]

sorry for double posting.

could you make a tattoo on a characters knuckles working as a weapons focus?

I would say that knuckle/finger tattoos would make great combat fetishes, but due to the nature of these sorts of tattoos, they wouldn't be good for weapon foci (tattoos on the knuckles/fingers tend to wear down/away more easily than any other placement on the body, and would especially quickly after such use, I would think).

[Adarael]

Yeah, but fetishes aren't astrally active. You would never be able to tell they were fetishes. If they were captured and stripped naked, they guy could still have hidden fetishes.

My bad, I was talking about tattoos as a FOCUS, not a fetish.

[Cain]

My bad, I was talking about tattoos as a FOCUS, not a fetish.

Even then, there's no way of telling they're magical unless you assesense them. And if they're turned off, IIRC they're ever harder to detect. Besides which, when you use tattoos for Quickening, damage to the tattoo doesn't destroy the spell.

Basically, it gives the mage an unfair advantage to have a focus that cannot be taken away without seriously harming him. What happens if the instructions were to being them back alive? Flaying their skin off isn't a good way of ensuring that.

[Socinus]

I think I was unclear, I want to know if there is a way for a character to use Conjuring to make tattoos they have on their body come to life, manifest in the real world, and be usable in combat or other applications.

[Cain]

I think I was unclear, I want to know if there is a way for a character to use Conjuring to make tattoos they have on their body come to life, manifest in the real world, and be usable in combat or other applications.

Sure. It's just a "special effect" of your conjuring. Instead of materilizing out of thin air, the spirit springs to life from your tattoo. Same thing, different trappings.

[Socinus]

Sure. It's just a "special effect" of your conjuring. Instead of materilizing out of thin air, the spirit springs to life from your tattoo. Same thing, different trappings.

Ok, thank you.

Does anyone have a brief run-down on summoning as the book is rather unclear on how the process works and what spirits actually are and what they can do in relation to combat.

[Cain]

First things first: Aaron's webpage has a set of very nice cheat sheets that go over the process in detail.

Summoning is relatively straightforward. First, choose your spirit type and force. What types of spirits you can summon is based on your tradition. The GM rolls dice equal to the force of the spirit vs. your conjuring pool, consisting of your Conjuring + Magic. For each net success you have, you have one service from the spirit. Total up the spirit's successes (not net successes, total successes) and multiply by two. That's the Drain Value you're going to resist, using your Willpower + drain attribute (as determined by your Tradition).

That's pretty much the basics of it. There are other steps, bonuses that may or may not apply, and the like; but that's the overview you were asking about.

Edit: What each spirit can do depends on the spirit type and force. For every 3 full points of Force, you can select one optional power from the spirit's list. You pick that when you summon the spirit. So, a Force 3 spirit has one optional power, a force 6 has two, and so on and so forth.

Any spirit can use its powers in combat if ordered to, it's just that some have better attack powers than others. Elemental Attack tends to be better than straight unarmed combat, for example. They all have Immunity to Normal Weapons, though, just for materializing; that gives them hardened armor equal to double Force. So, a Force 6 spirit is pretty much impervious to any non-heavy weapon. There are ways of bypassing this, but you won't need to worry about them for a while.

[Socinus]

Ok, so how is spirit combat determined? How do you get the stats for a spirit to fight in the real world such as Strength, Agility etc etc?

[Cain]

Spirit stats are determined by its type and are based on its force. You can read the full breakdown starting on p 294; for example, an Air spirit's Body is it's Force - 2. Spirit combat, when materialized, runs just like normal combat.