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> Help! New 4thed player, Trying to make a Troll Magician
RedeemerofOgar
post Dec 27 2008, 07:38 PM
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So I'm finally starting to get over my animosity and give 4th Ed a try. It's strange getting used to the lower numbers, and my character feels terribly underpowered as I have him currently laid out (400BP). Is he, or am I just having adjustment pains?

Also, Improved Invisibility seems to need 4 successes (TN5) to have any benefit at all, and is useless against UltraWideBand Radar, which at it's price seems like it should be the centerpiece of every security system, correct? What other spell or spells should a Troll be using to sneak around?

Any advice appreciated. He is a Troll full magician who plans to use Magic at range and a Claymore (held in one hand) up close when the fit hits the shan. It was going to be a weapon focus and his Blades skill was going to be higher, but I shaved some stuff out when I realized that I could pick up a R4 power focus with the Restricted Gear quality.


So: My troll, Alonso Quixano:

Body 9, Agility 3, Reaction 3, Strength 7, Charisma 2, Intuition 2, Logic 4, Willpower 5, Edge 1, Magic 5

Initiative 7, 3 IPs. (Increased Reaction F3 Sustained)

Skills:
Conjuring Group 1
Spellcasting 5 (+2 spec for Health, +2 Mentor Spirit for Combat)
Counterspelling 2
Enchanting 1 (+2 spec for Artificing)
Blades 2 (+2 spec for Swords)
Pistols 1
Dodge 1
Computer 1
Assessensing 1
Infiltration 1

Qualities (positive):
Mentor Spirit - Dragonslayer +5
Restricted Gear (Power Focus) +5

Qualities (negative):
Astral Beacon -5
Sensitive System -15
Distinctive Style -10
Lost Loved One -5 (actually in a coma, daughter lost to the crash, he's paying for her care and looking for a cure)

Spells:
Powerbolt
Stunball
Heal
Levitate
Increased Reflexes
Alter Memory
Influence
Physical Mask (was Improved Invisibility, still not sure about this one)

Gear:
Power Focus R4
Sustaining Focus (Health) R3 (holds Increased Reflexes)
Ares Predator IV (Smartgun) -1AP, 5P, Pers grip (-1Recoil)
-3 Spare Clips (15c), 100rds caseless, Skinlink
Claymore - Reach 2, -1 AP (Str/2+4)P, 2hander
-Personalized Grip (+1 die) (if used 1-handed, -1die & -1DV)
Armor Jacket (8/6)
Ballistic Shield (+6/+4)
Helmet (+1/+2)
-Flare Compensation
-Vision Magnification
-Image Link
-Vision Enhancement (3)
--Ultrawideband Radar (R4)
Novatech Airware Commlink w/Smartlink, R6 Hardening
Novatech Navi
--Subvocal Microphone
--Holoprojector
--Satellite Link
Form-Fitting Body Armor (half suit, 4/1)
PPP Forearm and Shin guards, discreet
Fake SIN Rating 3
Fake Carry&Conceal License (private eye) Rating 4
Emotitoy - minidrone kitten (R6 Empathy Software)
--Lie Detection (R6)
Harley Davidson Chopper (used, 20% off)
Morphing License Plate & Spoof Chip
Squatter Lifestyle
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ElFenrir
post Dec 27 2008, 07:53 PM
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Oki! Well, at first glance, not bad at all, especially for a new player. I'm a big fan of the troll magician, myself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Combat mage, by the look of him. However, I would change a few things to help.

He's a Hermetic, I'm guessing, so Logic-based? Solid Drain stats and nothing really dumped, either. Good.

While high Body is awesome...I MIGHT shift one point to Agility. Your combat skills are linked to that stat, and it might help him. Trust me, with an 8 body and 1 point of dermal armor, you will still be plenty tough.

I would try to specialize him in Ranged dodge. Luckily he can soak the hits, but as most folks say, better to try NOT to get hit-right now he rolls four to try to dodge(reaction 3 + 1 dodge), in ranged, a specialization for 2 BP could get him an extra 2 dice for a respectable 6 before soaking. Might be something to think of.

The Edge of 1 might be a problem. I know stats are hard...but I would TRY to scratch up 10 points for at least an edge of 2. Edge is a very good stat, and I've tried the edge of 1 before, and it did kinda bite me in the butt. You COULD lose one point of Strength-it'd drop his DV by 1, but with a Claymore, and the Reach bonus, he will still hurt plenty in melee; with a 6 strength and 4 Agility, he could roll a base 8 dice, +3 for Reach, +1 for grip and be doing 7P, -1 AP(or 6P with 11 dice, -1 AP one-handed.)

I would try to get one more point to Counterspelling, too. It's very, very useful and can save mundanes. With a Magic 5 and CS 3, you should be pretty good to go.

The Power Focus 4 is nifty. Will come in very handy.

The extra Agility point will also help his Infiltration skill, his Pistols...yeah, it might be a good idea. Increase Reflexes is on his list and sustained-great idea.

Lower Conjuring/Charisma isn't too much of a problem at the start. This can always be improved later; might be better that you're concentrating more on one aspect for now, the spellcasting.

Also: Forgot his Perception skill. With an Intuition of 2, he's defaulting with 1 die. A point of Perception and some contacts/earbuds with Vision/Audio Enhancement can help things out there for his eyes and ears, in any case.

But solid overall concept; it might seem like I mentioned a lot of things, but the overall framework is solid. IMO, just a few points might be shifted around a bit to help things out.



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Glyph
post Dec 27 2008, 08:16 PM
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At the start of play, you can have either two skills of 5, or one skill of 6. There is no reason whatsoever to have only one skill of 5 - it's only 4 more points to raise it to 6.

For your magical skills:
Conjuring Group 1
Spellcasting 5 (+2 spec for Health, +2 Mentor Spirit for Combat)
Counterspelling 2
Enchanting 1 (+2 spec for Artificing)

I would change to:
Summoning/specialization: 1/+2
Binding/specialization: 1/+2
- The banishing skill is not worth it. You're better off manabolting it instead.
Spellcasting/Health: 6/+2
- You might want to specialize in combat spells, to maximize your effectiveness in that area.
- Enchanting is not vital. Pick it up later.
Counterspelling: 2 (it would be better to have this higher, but I don't see where the points could come from).

For the other skills, dodge I assume you're going to improve later, since it is all but useless at rating: 1. I would get rid of the computer skill - you are not a hacker, and 3 dice from defaulting is plenty. Get the perception skill instead - it is vital for any character to have, especially since your Intuition is only 2. I would also suggest getting rid of the dodge skill, for now, and getting at least one social skill. Dragonslayer gives a bonus to one social skill; right now, you are only getting half of the benefits from you mentor spirit.

For the spell, definitely change it back to improved invisibility. Wideband radar might be prevalent in corporate complexes, but it's not everywhere, and individual guards are less likely to have it. Given the fact that you are carting around a two-handed sword and a riot shield, physical mask just won't cut it.


If this guy seems underpowered, it's because you are trying to be good at two specialties at once, and they are specialties with little in common as far as Attributes and qualities. When you do that, it's hard to stretch the points out enough to be good at both roles. As far as physical combat, you are good at soaking damage, and do decent damage in melee, but it comes at the expense of your magical skill set, which is pretty bare bones outside of your spellcasting skill. I mean, heck, even the SR3 troll combat sorcerer archetype had lower Body and Strength.

Still, you roll 16 dice for health and combat spells (although I would still raise spellcasting to 6), 10 dice to hack someone for 8P damage, and you have a high Body and Willpower along with plenty of armor. You should do all right. If you're an SR3 vet, then I assume you know when to take the sword and riot shield, and when to leave them at home.
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vollmond
post Dec 27 2008, 08:19 PM
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I like troll magicians (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) this looks fairly similar to the Norse troll magician I'm playing right now - down to the claymore weapon focus.

I've become a big fan of Edge. Would suggest you shift some points around to bump that to at least 3.

If you do focus-ize your sword, don't forget it can help in astral combat, too, if you have the skill.

What tradition is your magician? I presume Logic is your drain stat?

I would take your maximum (10) number of spells - they're a lot cheaper at chargen than later. Perhaps drop some skill specs in favor of spells - specs are only 2 karma post-chargen. Magic Fingers and Shapechange have both been pretty useful for me. Also Orgy, but that may be a personal bias (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Don't forget you get (Logic + Intuition) * 3 free Knowledge skill points.

The one point of dodge will probably not be worth it - you'll use your sword in close combat, and at range you'll have to go into full defense to use it - not worth it for one extra die. I'd put those BP into another level of pistols, if you intend the Predator to be a viable alternative to spellcasting.

As far as being underpowered, by nature the mage will do less damage in general than a physad or street sam - you make up for that with versatility. I confess I've only played 4ed, but in general the mage has a noticably smaller dice pool than the other team members (though still double-digit), with the plus side that you can do several different, unrelated things (depending on your spell list) with that same decent dice pool.

EDIT: Also, this is the first time I've given character advice here. Please, anybody, let me know if you see me giving bad/incorrect advice. Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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ElFenrir
post Dec 27 2008, 08:32 PM
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Straight up ''bad'' advice would be ''Load your mage with 4 points of cyber and get rid of his spells''. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The nice thing about character critiques-and sometimes one of the more confusing things at the same time-is that sometimes you can get a fair bit of good advice, that's all slightly different. For example, person 1 might have just never had Edge do anything spectacular for them, like, ever, due to their own luck or whatnot, or just never needing to use it. They might be less likely to say to raise Edge. Others who have had Edge work wonderfully will suggest almost first thing to raise the Edge to at least the 2 range, if not more(I'm one of those folks.)

Really, I would look at all the advice, and then see what works best for you, and to see what is actually an improvement, etc. Glyph's advice ont he conjuring, IMO, is better than mine-I said to stick with it, but I sometimes forget that banishing isn't the most widely used skill(and I don't really specialize in conjurers, so I just pick up the group at 1-2 for cheaper than the skills separate, a lot of times.)
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Muspellsheimr
post Dec 27 2008, 10:52 PM
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If you intend to use your sword for anything more than backup, I strongly suggest [Element] Aura, from Street Magic.

I would also probably drop Strength to 5 in favor of Edge/Agility, or more spells.
Drop Dodge 1 in favor of Spellcasting 6, & try to find the points to increase your Counterspelling skill.
Drop Conjuring in favor of Summoning/Binding with specializations. As said before, Banishing is just not that useful.
Although not necessary, strongly recommended to find points for Perception.

Finally, you might want to burn a point of Magic for Cerebral Boosters & Muscle Toner, if you can find the money for them.
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wind_in_the_ston...
post Dec 27 2008, 11:44 PM
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Skills of 5 are pretty good, and 3 or 4, decent. Skills of 1, however, are taken only if you think you might have to use the skill, and don't want to default (Attribute -1 for defaulting, compared to attribute +1, for a skill of 1). On the other hand, sills of 1 are easy to raise with karma.

I prefer not to buy foci during chargen, unless they're something specific that I really need. This is because we typically find foci during play - they're much cheaper that way. That, of course, may be specific to my group's play style. That having been said, given your increased reflexes spell, you might want a sustaining focus for it.

Physical Mask and Improved Invisibility are both excellent spells, with their own set of uses.

Edge is an important attribute. I never take less than a 3 if I can help it.

Oh, and some people don't find Dodge to be an incredibly useful skill. You only get to use it when you either go full defense, or when you're defending against melee - in which case you use the best you've got (or most applicable) among unarmed, armed or dodge.
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RedeemerofOgar
post Dec 28 2008, 11:16 AM
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Good stuff here, thanks! And yes, he is Hermetic, probably zoroastrian actually. Asatru (norse) was tempting on concept but I was restricting myself to Logic-based traditions.

OK, so I took to heart the "rank 1 skills are mostly bad" and raised my spellcasting to 6 (I had originally had spellcasting 5 and blades 5, and blades has been creeping down as I found more things I wanted, heh). I also dropped a lot of specialties, not having realized just how cheap they were to pick up later. I kept Blades and Pistols because I don't want to not know SOMETHING about them, even as a starting character, and I need Binding/Assensing/Summoning as those are not defaultable. Raised Counterspelling, and added Perception as suggested (thanks, I totally missed that one).

Summoning 1
Spellcasting 6
Assensing 1
Counterspelling 3
Binding 1
Perception 2
Blades 1 (+2 spec Swords)
Pistols 1

I used the extra points to raise his Agility to 4, which is happy-making. I also lowered Str to 6 to raise Edge to 2, which is less happy-making, but is certainly the sort of non-obvious choices I was asking about. I can't bring myself to go lower on Str though, he's already pretty weak as Trolls go, and that's going to be very expensive to raise in game I should think. ...how awful would it be to have Charisma or Intuition starting at one in order to raise Edge? I assume that means I'm either boorish or blind, yes? What else does it kill me on?

I switched Physical Mask back to Imp Invis.
@Vollmond, I don't see Magic Fingers giving me much that Levitate can't already do, at least not with my skill set the way it is. Also, Shapechange with a body of 9 gives you access to: Horse. Unless I want to do an homage to Dr Horrible, I'm not seeing a lot of utility there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Any other comments on the spell list I have picked? I used to love the hell out of Physical Barrier but it doesn't seem to bottle people up as well as it used to - a quick read makes it look like any spray of bullets will knock one down, is that correct?

Again, thanks for the help! I'm learning 4th Ed by jumping around in sections that look interesting, that means I'm bound to miss things. I'm especially looking for anything that caught you by surprise when you switched from 3E to 4E that hasn't already been addressed.
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WeaverMount
post Dec 28 2008, 11:34 AM
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By RAW you can only start with an R2 power focus if you don't take restricted gear. Availability gets house ruled a lot so maybe this doesn't matter to you.

Moreover, I think this character is underpowered(for a mage at least). This charcter trying to do everything but hack as the most expensive meta type not counting Marry-Sue's Runner's Companion. You just don't have the BP. Mages are huge BP hogs. If you want to get a second specialty the easist way to do it is by finding a niche you can fill with a skill or two that links with your drain stat. If you want good stats, or 3rd specially, or one that doesn't overlap with things you bought to help your magery, you will have to par down on your mojo. IMO spell casting should be first on the chopping block. Summoning is at least as useful as Sorcery, but sorcery has further costs in terms of individual spells. Counter spelling should be last on the chopping block. Shielding isn't sexy, but it's one of the best meta magics in the game.
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vollmond
post Dec 28 2008, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Dec 28 2008, 05:34 AM) *
By RAW you can only start with an R2 power focus if you don't take restricted gear. Availability gets house ruled a lot so maybe this doesn't matter to you.


He has restricted gear in his qualities section up at the top.

@RedeemerofOgar
As for Magic Fingers, it gets you things like disarming a distant opponent, or things where you need more dexterity than Levitate can give you - turning on lights, opening doors, that sort of thing. Still, just a suggestion. I do really suggest you pick up your full 10 spells though - only 2 BP now, but 5 Karma + $ in-game.

EDIT: Oh, and I like the Dr. Horrible homage... have to try that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

My Troll mage has base body/str, so shifting to Great Cat can be a big boon to close combat, or if I've been captured and have no armor (body 12 Great Cat is doable)
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Glyph
post Dec 28 2008, 07:16 PM
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Edge can be a very useful Attribute, and can pull you out of a jam, but honestly, there isn't much difference between an Edge of 1 and an Edge of 2, and dropping your Strength from an odd number to an even number drops your base damage rating for your claymore down by one.

More importantly, you plan on raising Strength later. Raising Edge from 1 to 2 costs 6 Karma, while raising Strength from 6 to 7 costs 21 Karma. You are better off muddling through with an Edge of 1 for the first adventure or two, then raising it, than by gutting Strength to do so.
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Stahlseele
post Dec 28 2008, 07:17 PM
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if you have runners companion, try and ask for karma-gen instead of BP Generation . . Troll won't cost you anything with that, as far as i know . .
further: shapechange is pretty much useless, if you don't shift into something that can either breathe under water or fly or lets you do something you usually could not.
you lose all clothes on your body, you lose all armor, you lose all gear and when you shift back, you're naked. and nobody wants to see a nude troll . . ever . .
biggest drawback is losing hands, which allow you to do things nothing else can do. the bit more close combat should be handled by your claymore focus thingie O.o
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wind_in_the_ston...
post Dec 28 2008, 09:20 PM
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I find attributes of 1 (including edge) to be even worse than skills of 1. But like Glyph said, it's easier to raise them with karma. You just hope you make it that long. A 1 intuition will hurt your perception. A 1 charisma will make for amusing role-playing possibilities. You said, I kept Blades and Pistols because I don't want to not know SOMETHING about them, even as a starting character. This is a perfectly valid strategy. I need Binding/Assensing/Summoning as those are not defaultable. Assensing is pretty handy, if not essential. Binding/summoning may not be worthwhile at 1.

Levitate allows you to lift and move an object, if you roll enough hits. Magic fingers allows you to manipulate the object. Like pull a pin or a trigger, turn a doorknob, etc.

The character looks good, though, and most of this advice is a little on the picky side.
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RedeemerofOgar
post Dec 28 2008, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Dec 28 2008, 04:20 PM) *
Binding/summoning may not be worthwhile at 1.


That's something I've been wondering about, never having mucked about much with spirits even in 3e, but they seem more prevalent in 4e somehow (could just be the book layout though). Would you say that dabbling in Spirits is worth the risk?

A summoning test is Magic + Summoning vs Force, which means I get to use my Power Focus on it ("adds its force to all tests in which the magician's Magic is included.") Even with a skill of 1 that gives me 10 dice to summon, which should allow me on average to summon anything I want, though perhaps not with a ton of services owed. It looks like the Drain on summoning can be pretty heinous though, as if I'm reading it right the Drain for a R6 spirit is anywhere from 2 to 12 (average 4, vs my average of 3 drain successes), and you won't know until you try to summon it. Binding seems even worse, with the same drain test but the possibility of the Spirit becoming uncontrolled. It would seem like Binding is the way to go though (I'm assuming Ritual Binding Materials are consumed by the binding test?), as I just can't see performing a test in the middle of a run that has a variable possibility of 12 drain unless R6 spirits are REALLY better than a R5 Magician throwing around powerbolts and stunballs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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WeaverMount
post Dec 28 2008, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (RedeemerofOgar @ Dec 28 2008, 06:27 PM) *
REALLY better than a R5 Magician throwing around powerbolts and stunballs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


They often are. Spirits of Man, and Guardian Spirits especially. Guardian spirits are much more powerful than drones at F5 and higher. Could you imagine a GM approving a drone with 10-14 hardened armor and counterspelling?

Spirits of man similarly get spell casting DPs ranging from non-optimized to lightly optimized as they grow from F5 to F7. Plus they can act as loaner sustaining foci with a force equal to your magic for almost nothing.

If you use a possession tradition using yourself as a vessel and having a spirit of man run a spell or two can give a DP in specialist's ball park at most anything
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wind_in_the_ston...
post Dec 29 2008, 12:20 AM
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I think spirits are very powerful, since it's a whole new member on your team. Besides that, you can send them places that you can't go, like inside a car. But you knew that. I think that spirits in SR4 are not quite as powerful as elementals used to be, and they're harder to summon. With ten dice, you should be able to reliably summon a F4 spirit, so that's pretty good. Binding is much harder.
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masterofm
post Dec 29 2008, 12:35 AM
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Possession spirit + troll + channeling = crazy. If you are going to go hand to hand an elemental aura (or whichever one the attack version is) on your troll can be powerful. It also means that a complex action to smack someone is awesome instead of completely lame. Hitting someone with lightening or sonic means that when you hit someone it really really hurts. Other then that why bother? Hitting someone with a sword is just generally a bad idea when they shoot you with an Ares predator with a short narrow burst and then a long narrow burst.
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ornot
post Dec 29 2008, 12:56 AM
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I'd suggest that while spirits are pretty kick arse, if they fall outside your concept, you might as well ditch them. Binding is nice, since it allows you to prepare in advance, but it costs money which - depending on your fellow PCs - may or may not cut into your pay. With a Charisma of only 2, you can't bind many at a time anyway. Basically I'm suggesting that you pick up Binding later, and stick those BPs somewhere else.

I'll also echo other advice, and suggest that your fundamental problem stems from wanting to be a stonking melee beast, and an uber spellslinger. You will have to compromise in some areas. Your power focus makes up for a lot so you can afford to drop the Magic and Spellcasting a little. This frees up a lot of points to round out social skills, perception, and up the blades/pistols skill as you wanted before.
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Glyph
post Dec 29 2008, 01:09 AM
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I would suggest not dropping your core skills to boost your much less useful melee skills and tertiary skills. You should always be as good as possible in your core compency. And since your magical skills are already pared down to the point where spellcasting is the only magical skill you're really good at, you don't want to drop it down any. In SR4, it is very easy to overgeneralize to the point of uselessness. You have already sacrificed starting out good at the conjuring end for the sake of close combat abilities - don't mess up spellcasting.
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masterofm
post Dec 29 2008, 01:40 AM
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If you gimp on the spellcasting why be a mage? Possess the troll with a guardian spirit and let it do the fighting. You can have both, but knocking down your spell casting/magical use why not at that point just be an adept instead of a mage?
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Backgammon
post Dec 29 2008, 02:07 AM
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Tinsy detail - pick up the Analyse software, as high as you can. You don't need to know anything about Hacking - just get it.
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masterofm
post Dec 29 2008, 02:16 AM
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This is a fairly good troll combat mage build.

Name: Trolly Mic troll troll
Metatype : Troll
Magician - Hermetic possession

Attributes
Body: 7
Agility: 2
Reaction: 2
Strength: 5
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 4 (7)
Willpower: 5

Edge: 3
Magic: 6 (5)
Initiative: 5
Essence: 5.4

Knowledge Skills
: N

Active Skills
Banishing : 4
Binding : 4
Summoning : 4
Counterspelling : 4
Ritual Spellcasting : 4
Spellcasting : 4
Assensing : 1
Enchanting : 1
Perception : 1
Blades : 6
Dodge : 1


Positive Qualities
Mentor Spirit
Restricted gear

Negative Qualities
+35 points


Bioware
Cerebral Booster 3

Gear


Spells
Heal
Mind Probe
Increase Reflexes

Contacts
Some fixer dude (L:1 C:3)

30k for the fixin's.

He might not be much in the beginning, and he will probably suffer from sustaining spell penalties, but if you are going to go mage this is the best option for a troll fighting mage.

possess your character with a force 5 spirit and suddenly your physical stats are Body - 12, Agility - 7, Reaction - 7, Strength - 10. Even with taking a -2 sustaining spell penalty (increased reflexes r4) you are going to do some serious damage. Instead of throwing 6 dice at combat your character will throw 13 and even with a -2 sustaining penalty that is still 11 dice. Your spell casting is nice, and you can summon and bind, and fight.

Trolls are heavy on the BP and they take up 1/5th of your starting BP. This is about one of the few viable combat mage builds you can get. What is also nice is this kind of mage has a lot of potential and can go in many different directions and still be quite scary. After you get a r4 power focus you can build up a spell list, or get some sustaining spell foci, or boost some of your lesser stats, or get some skill wires with the extra essence left over, or put in a trauma dampener and plaitlet factories so that you will take less drain from spell casting, specializations in skills. The sky is the limit.
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RedeemerofOgar
post Dec 29 2008, 10:31 PM
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'nother stupid question: Since I've got like 15 dice for spellcasting (I went ahead and bumped up Spellcasting to 6, I was thinking that the last point of skill cost extra as well), would it be worthwhile to cast and self-sustain Increase Reaction at like 7 force when I'm tanking? I ought to be able to get 5 hits on average, and the drain for that spell is crazy low - it would trade off -2 dice for most actions, to get +3 or more dice on defense. If I'm reading it right the Sustaining penalty will not reduce my Counterspelling (as it isn't an action), is that correct?

This character really needs Quickening, but Initiation + quickening a high-force spell is rather expensive IIRC...
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HentaiZonga
post Dec 29 2008, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE (RedeemerofOgar @ Dec 29 2008, 03:31 PM) *
'nother stupid question: Since I've got like 15 dice for spellcasting (I went ahead and bumped up Spellcasting to 6, I was thinking that the last point of skill cost extra as well), would it be worthwhile to cast and self-sustain Increase Reaction at like 7 force when I'm tanking? I ought to be able to get 5 hits on average, and the drain for that spell is crazy low - it would trade off -2 dice for most actions, to get +3 or more dice on defense. If I'm reading it right the Sustaining penalty will not reduce my Counterspelling (as it isn't an action), is that correct?

This character really needs Quickening, but Initiation + quickening a high-force spell is rather expensive IIRC...


True, but a Force 6 Sustaining Focus isn't that expensive. Invest in said Force 6 Sustaining Focus and cast Increase Reaction (or heck, Increase Reflexes) at Force 6 directly into the focus, and you should be pretty happy with the results.
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ornot
post Dec 30 2008, 12:14 AM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Dec 29 2008, 01:09 AM) *
I would suggest not dropping your core skills to boost your much less useful melee skills and tertiary skills. You should always be as good as possible in your core compency. And since your magical skills are already pared down to the point where spellcasting is the only magical skill you're really good at, you don't want to drop it down any. In SR4, it is very easy to overgeneralize to the point of uselessness. You have already sacrificed starting out good at the conjuring end for the sake of close combat abilities - don't mess up spellcasting.


meh. I don't much like PCs where one skill has been maxed to absolute silliness. I'm not suggesting that this character is lopsided in the same vein as the Pornomancer, but IMO a runner should be as flexible as possible. YMMV of course, but if you're throwing all your dice for one thing, you might as well twiddle your thumbs most of the night while the rest of the team do all the other things a run needs. I've even seen strictly combat specced PCs intentionally trigger a firefight, much to the chagrin of the other players, who had been keeping things low key.

As it was at the time of my initial post, the troll was rolling 14 dice for spellcasting, which is a hell of a pool. Dropping that to 12 dice doesn't seem to break the concept any, and allows the character to beef up his melee pool from 7 dice, which seemed to me to be the direction the OP was intending.

Still, there's more than one way to skin a cat, so y'all go to it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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