trid Phantasm and ultrasound, is it fooled? Options

[Yum Donuts]

if the person has ultrasound vision, are they fooled by trid phantasm? I think so, but I just want a little support.

the last line in the entry under ultrasound in M&M seems to imply it, but again, I'd like a consensus before I screw over the group.

[Snake Oil]

It depends on whether or not you want to go with the description of the spell or the spell design recipe in Magic in the Shadows. The former says it's a visual illusion only (which is pretty useless considering the Drain and intent of the spell) while the spell design recipe says its a multi-sense illusion.

If you go with the former, yes, ultrasound will see through it. If you go with the latter, no, ultrasound will be fooled, too.

[Lilt]

Personally I'd allow it to fool sonar, as per its listing in the spell design rules.

You could consider it a single sense severe change, which would give it the same drain code, but I don't know what the precidence for considering it a severe alteration to a sense over a major change would be. If a Major change can make someone disappear, then why shouldn't it be OK for creating an effectively 'normal' illusion.

The only spell I can find which is probably classified (and constructed) as a single sense severe change is foreboding.

[Joker9125]

What about thermagrapic vision?

[Snake Oil]

Thermographic Vision would be fooled either way. Thermosense Organs would see through it only in the former case.

[Tziluthi]

Well, I guess it works out like this. If the illusion is created in the mind of the target, then ultrasound vision is fooled by it (so, basically, if it's a mana spell, rather than a physical one). If the illusion is basically a hologram, something created in a space, but without physical sustance, then the ultrasound vision is not fooled. If the illusion is created in a space, and it has physical substance, then ultrasound vision is fooled. In my humble opinion, judging by the decription of the spell, I would have to say that the physical version does not fool ultrasound vision, but the mana version does. If you want an 'official', if not 'canon', ruling then you could do worse than drop a line to Rob Boyle, whose e-mail address you can find on the faq page of the official Shadowrun website.

[kenji]

i'd agree with Tziluthi, based on the fact that Ultrasonic sonar is radically different than vision, no matter where it is located on the EM spectrum. sonar is an active signal-bounce-recieve system entirely using pressure waves, and vision is a passive receive-photons system. (and thermo simply relies on the lower-energy IR photons emitted by heated objects, iirc?)


i find it really really really funky that SR includes Ultrasonic vision as cyberware. (and remember everyone, that Ultrasonic 'detectors' are only a handful of nuyen. bus-ted!) so does anyone with the ultrasonic mod ever push their eyes up to a surface, to try and percieve it's structure? like looking into a wall to find the "useful" bits?