More Orks! Options

[HentaiZonga]

What do you think the game effect would be of dropping the Ork BP cost to 10, possibly dropping Body from +3 to +2 to compensate?

[Adarael]

Now, I like Orks, a lot. You can probably tell that from my icon. Orks are where it's at, as far as I'm concerned. But even with this change, Orks would still be - by far - the best deal of any metatype. I don't really think reducing their body changes that much.

[Dr Funfrock]

Purely in terms of bang for your buck, going for Ork is the best 20BP you will ever spend. There's absolutely no need to make them any cheaper when they're already the most BP efficient metatype in the game.

If people aren't playing Orks enough in your games, they just haven't been shown the artwork for Gary Kline and the Gunslinger Adept yet.

Fact: Shadowrun Orks look awesome.

[Draxtier]

Orks are great as they are, and really shouldn't need any help to become more popular. If the players in your group don't like to play them, they're missing out.

Orks effectively get +5 to their stats, and they're very good stats to get bumped up (3 bod, 2 str) which would require 50 BP to get up as a human, for only the 20BP cost for the metarace. They can then spend the full 200 BP from creation on stats. The downside? Lower maximums in cha and log, which many character types don't need, and won't miss. Low light vision is icing on the cake. I agree completely with Adarael, Orks rock.

[Rasumichin]

What do you think the game effect would be of dropping the Ork BP cost to 10, possibly dropping Body from +3 to +2 to compensate?

I actually used to play in a game where costs for orks and ork metavariants where lowered by 10BP (it was supposed to be a thematic campaign in the Seattle Ork Underground).
Without lowering the bonus to BOD.

I was a bit surprised that 2 out of 6 players actually decided not to play orks.
They're already extremely cost-effective, as has been pointed out.

Lower maximums in cha and log

And Edge.
But that's a drawback of all metahumans.

[MaxMahem]

As others have said, orks are already by far the best buy in the game. Decreasing their cost only adds to this imbalance. If you want to make a race cheaper, statistically it should be the elves, who are overcosted by at least 10 (if not 20) BP.

But don't do that because elves suck.

[Tyro]

As others have said, orks are already by far the best buy in the game. Decreasing their cost only adds to this imbalance. If you want to make a race cheaper, statistically it should be the elves, who are overcosted by at least 10 (if not 20) BP.

But don't do that because elves suck.

We all know how you feel about Elves, Max.

RE the main topic, remember that Strength is by far the least useful stat, even if you use the Arsenal strength-based recoil compensation.

[MaxMahem]

We all know how you feel about Elves, Max.

Some points bear repeating.

[Adarael]

Elves are the devil, They want to steal our freedoms and replace them with candy corn. Candy corn shaped like STALIN.

[Draxtier]

I don't want to derail the topic, but... why do elves suck?

[wind_in_the_ston...]

#1. I hate elves. Always have. I think they are one of the worst race concepts in all of fiction. "Oh look at me, I am just like a human in every single way except better, woohoo!" I'm faster, more agile, I can run on snow, see hawks 5000 miles distant. Oh, and I live forever to! Isn't that just grand? No, it isn't its lame and dump and you are dumb for playing one. Fragging pointy eared punks. So I will never ever, ever, ever play an elf character. To me they are just pathetic, and I look upon anyone who DOES play one of those stupid keeblers with scorn and disdain. And yes, that include all you people out there on dumpshock who have done it! I am disappointed in you! Really, playing an elf. How pathetic.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Draxtier]

Oh...

Well alright then.

[Glyph]

We all know how you feel about Elves, Max.

RE the main topic, remember that Strength is by far the least useful stat, even if you use the Arsenal strength-based recoil compensation.

I agree, but a Strength of 3 is really the sweet spot (trolls, not so much - Strength of 5 is a bit much if you are not a combat-oriented character).

As far as elves, they come out 10 BP behind humans, but the stats they get bonuses to are very valuable ones - you either start out with an extra dice for your combat skills, or two extra dice for a face. It's like paying for Aptitude or an Exceptional Attribute - you're paying for the ability to boost certain stats. If you don't do either, then you are basically paying 10 points for "style".

If you just want style, play an elf poser and get 5 Build Points. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Muspellsheimr]

Actually, Elves are 5 BP overpriced, not 10 or more.

10 - Agility
10 - Charisma
10 - Charisma
5 - Low-Light Vision
[Total: 35]

vs.

10 - Edge
[Total: 10]

Difference: 25 BP

[Glyph]

I'm going solely by Attributes. If you start factoring in things like low-light vision, lower running speed, exceptional vs. limited Attributes, and everything else, then you'll get bogged down in a big mess. Plus, you have to factor in the "package deal" factor of something you want vs. something you don't find useful, but it's part of the metatype. Natural low-light vision, for example, is pretty useless for the sammie who's going to get cybereyes with the works anyways.

I mean, if you want to get technical, you could say that the lower Edge cap and the higher Agility cap cancel each other out, and elves should get Exceptional Attribute X 2 for their Charisma, making them 35 points underpriced.

Overall, I think the races are relatively balanced vs. each other, with each having things they are better at, but none of them being so dominant that everyone picks that race.


btw, addressing HentaiZonga's original question, he wasn't actually making orks cheaper, since he was dropping a bonus Strength point as well as the price, for the same net gain, point-wise. The advantage being that you can start out as an ork with a Body of 3, and the disadvantage being that you only have a maximum of 8(12) instead of 9(13). Not a house rule I would be likely to use, but not one that has any real game balance problems, either.

[TheOOB]

Anyone who has crunched the numbers know that elves are the only metatype that doesn't give you a good mathematical return on your BP spent(see post above about being 5 bp overpriced), though they do get a bonus to two very powerful attributes that no one else has a bonus to(and that others have a smaller max to).

[crash2029]

Is it odd that about the only Ingentis characters I play are non-combatants?

p.s. (insert whatever geek code translates as "Orks rock!" here)

[hermit]

Maybe, just maybe, players not playing orcs has to do with them wanting to play something else? No, that's entirely too far fetched, it must be in the numbers somewhere ...

[crash2029]

Maybe, just maybe, players not playing orcs has to do with them wanting to play something else? No, that's entirely too far fetched, it must be in the numbers somewhere ...

Blasphemy!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[wanderer_king]

You forgot an additional point modifier for elves:
-5pts gay as the day is long.

As for Orcs, only 1 of my players will play them... too many have been corrupted by the evil that has become D&D, and see orks as brainless savages.

[Ryu]

Maybe, just maybe, players not playing orcs has to do with them wanting to play something else? No, that's entirely too far fetched, it must be in the numbers somewhere ...

They want to play augmented ghouls, because the numbers are even better? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tyro]

You forgot an additional point modifier for elves:
-5pts gay as the day is long.
<snip>

Slurs on sexual orientation have no place here. I request an apology.

[Critias]

Lighten up, man. Everyone jokes about Elves being gay, even me -- and I'm one of the most hardcore pro-Elf people you'll find in any (read: every) game that has 'em.

[Tyro]

Lighten up, man. Everyone jokes about Elves being gay, even me -- and I'm one of the most hardcore pro-Elf people you'll find in any (read: every) game that has 'em.

It's not the Elf slur that bothers me, it's the slur on homosexuality. Whether or not you meant it with malice - and I will admit it appears you did not - I do not believe that sort of thing has any place in a civilized forum. It may seem harmless, but equating "gay" with "lame" or some other negative makes it seem all right to think of actual gay people that way.

[Critias]

I disapprove of what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Sorry, I guess I just don't see some things as worth getting all angry over.