Character Cirticizing, 3rd Ed. Troll Combat/Hunter Options

[Stahlseele]

yeah, i want to do such a thread too for once ^^
so, here he is. allready neatly compiled into HTML docs thanks to McMackies NSRCG3!
He's built using the Point Build system instead of the priorities. I think we're using 123Points to build characters.

http://de.geocities.com/nekekami_the_ghost/JohnLittle.htm

the links to weapons, vehicle, gear, cyber, bio and contacts should be working.
Yes, i know that i did not do a complete write-up of the contacts . . but there's like, 20 of them and only one of me <.< . .
and i will have to think up a nice background-story for him. i have some ideas about him being a bounty/critter-hunter.
i'll do that with one of his 2 level 3 sins, dunno what i am gonna do for the other one though . .
GM tells me we're gonna be set up in St.Louis(?_?)
i think i might have gone a bit over board with the edges and flaws, but the GM did not say anything agaunst that so i think i am good.
rules for me were at least 4 full points of cyber and no dikote for weapons in char-gen, even if the availability is low.

He should excell in close combat and of course with his Bow, but there's room for improvement in both.
i can in game still ad in smartlink or maybe smartlink 2, i can have the spurs dikote'd and if i can come up with the money/connections i can get an suprathoid gland.
the skills are improveable too, as are charisma and will-power.
i am playing 50% of the mundane characters in a 6 runner group . . so there will be 4 magical guys around.
And they still needed someone to be the strong-man of the group, so here i am. Presenting you with this guy.

Yes, i know, it's not mcuh to criticize anyway, but the GM told me to hurry it the hell up <.< . . .
he'll have to grow a personality/background as he's being played . .

[Chance359]

I'd drop strength by 1, and raise will power by 1, it'll give you an extra point of combat pool.

I'd drop athletics to 1 and if you can squeeze 15K out, get synta cardium level 2. Then use those two skill points to raise Cyber Implant weapons and Projectile weapons by 1 each. More as I look it over more.

[Stahlseele]

i pretty much maxed out strength because it's frigging hard to get more strength later in game with Trolls.
only thing that can still add strength is the suprathoid gland right now, because he's at STR15 and STR16 is complete Maximum for him.
yeah, the combat pool . . i was thinking about raising will-power, but i'd probably lower Body to get the points, as i can buy that up with cyber later on.
i'd probably be able to find 15k somewhere. i guess in the car is about 80k nuyen . . synthacardium . . well hell, i really missed that one O.o so i can get those skill-points back, stay at the same effective dice and use those skill-points to do something else with as you have mentioned . . and then later in game buy up skill for cheap because actual skill is only at 1 . . bloody genius that move O.o
and dropping and raising body later on will be easier than strength too, because that one is not quite that high . .
just curious, why raise cyber implant and projectile? aside from this design pretty much being built around the high powered cut and bow? *snickers*
would it not be better to put those points into shotgun for the net-gun, grappe-gun and all other shot-gun like weapons?

[Chance359]

I suggested those, since thats what he seems built to do. Also I'd probably watch the bad reputation and low charisma, +2 to all target numbers where you're only rolling 2 dice is gonna be murder.

Also, I'd suggest coming up with some way to get a reaction/ initaitve boost.

BTW, what the reasoning for having the strength be so high? Other than being able to hit harder and sling an arrow harder, why push for maxing it so hard?

Another nasty idea might be to load one of those poison sacks with elephant tranq, help to dish both physical and stun damage

[ElFenrir]

I too would go for taking some out of Strength and boosting Willpower.

I played a troll critter hunter, actually, before. Some of those more magical critters have magic. Mine also had lower Willpower to start. He nearly got hosed. Take it from experience: 2 points less of strength will still make that super-bow HURT like hell, and give him not only a better combat pool, but a better chance at surviving a Will attack. Again, I did the same thing-pumped Strength at the cost of Willpower/Charisma, and I nearly paid for it dearly. When I had remade him finally, I made him more balanced and he was actually more effective.

Having both unarmed and cyber-implant...well, there's a point to that; knocking out instead of killing is always good sometimes. But I might even take the unarmed down a notch to 2/4 and pop Polearms up another; having 3 reach against those critters is nice(and yeah, I took the same skill for mine, as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) 4 in Fists with even a 13 strength if you took it down would be plenty for a typical fistfight to knock someone on their ass.

I might suggest scraping up a couple of points for Heavy Weapons, for times where even the trollbow won't cut it. (If i recall, they don't affect vehicle or hardened armor as well as a heavy weapon). You don't even have to buy it yet. But having the skill might help.

But otherwise, even for the big combat dood, you do ahve the skills needed(etiquette, stealth), and his Charisma is at least a 2 and not the 1 i've seen in a lot of SR3 trolls, and he's actually damn smart, as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

i am pretty much forbidden from playing characters without the maximum intelligence score without a good explanation *snickers*
i boosted up strength, because the strong guy is needed in the group it seems. we have 3 adept thingies and one shaman, as far as i know.
the only other fully mundane character is, i think, some sort of yakuza or mafia guy or something along those lines . .
i took down body a notch, because with more combat pool, body won't be needed as sorely and can be bought up at a later point with cyber.
heavy guns uses strength, so i can default to that if needed be . . ok, i probably won't be very effective, but eh *g*
that's the one gaping hole in the SR3 Rules i think. i can default to more dice than i would have if i were using the skill, even if the target number is higher. the probability of successes is higher sometimes i guess O.o
ack, yeah, i forgot about the bad reputation x.x . . don't know where that one came from right now O.o(it's 01.01.09 i can't brain right now, i have the dumb x.x)
Right now he is at 10(12) body, 15 STR, willpower 3.
the STR can only be upped by suprathoid gland later on in game. i took exceptional attribute for STR and bonus attribute-point for it as well to get it to maximum of 16. and in the 3 essence version he starts with the 16 points too. raising strength with karma later on would be nigh impossible with the aforementioned weaknesses like low willpower, athletics, charisma and etiquette skills to take care of first. i ain't really planning on ever using that etiquette skill, but i thought it would make a nice addition to have in a pinch. . . it's better to have 2/4 with a +2 to TN than it is to have 1 with a +8 to TN ^^
we are supposed to be beginners in St.Louis i think. that's the reason why i got the AT LEAST 4 points of Essence left.

[Chance359]

Ranger bow: 19M
Cyberspurs: 15M
Fist: 17M stun

All of this is find and dandy, but even if what you're attacking has 5 points of impact armor, he's still going to have 10+ Moderate damage. I still think you'd be able to get by dropping strength 1 more point atleast.

I'd suggest changing cursed Karma with Police record, a few gear changes and you can minimize what the cops will hassel you for except DWT (driving while troll)

I'd also think about pulling the spurs and venom sacks replace them with forearm snap blades. They use the edge weapons skill, but Edged weapons is far more flexible than cyber implant weapons. It would also save you .72 essence and 26K all of which you could use to raise your boosted reflexes to level 2.

Or you could swap your spurs for hand blades (Spurs 15M vs Hand blade 18L), the higher target number being more improtant than stage.

Try to pick up some flash and smoke grenades, if nothing else, you can tie them to your arrows to make up for your lack of a throwing weapons skill.

[Stahlseele]

the nice thing about 2 spurs is, that core book rules for two cyber-implant weapons, especially spurs, states that the final damage code is Damage plus half Strength. so with 16STR you get 16M Damage. with one Spur. with 2 Spurs you get 16+8=24M Damage. Factor in Dikote for +1 point of more power on each and you get up to 26M. then Add in Dikote for another level and you're at 26S Damage and you can get through basically everything under bunker-like structures . . and you can cut up spirits, even with their special armor . . add in the 10D from the GammaScopo and if you did not cut right through, whatever it was gets to deal with 10D Stun with only natural body again. i REALLY don't wanna drop Strength. body is easier to come by later on <.< . . i allready had to nix the suprathoid gland from the original design due to GM wishes. yes, i forgot about the grenades . . i like your idea of tying things to those arrows though ^^
especially grenades O.o why did i not think of that? O.o
Hmm, yes, Cursed Karma for Police-Record, that sounds good to me . . will give me some background-hooks to boot, thank you for that one.
i am still struggling with that, so those things especially catch my fancy ^^
i will seriously consider the swap for hand-blades or maybe razors with improved razors for more power-niveau . . and with dikote later on i can boost that up to M again and everything else will have to come from successes i guess . . problem with that is, that the target will only get l damage if i have my known bad luck. granted, he will probably not be able to stage it down, but stranger things have happened . . hmm . . 18+8=26l Damage, with Dikote 28M Damage . . kinda evil . . and if i only intend to use it to inject . . THINGS with chemical warfare, then all the better . . if i decide i want someone not dead, i won't want him suddenly trying out cell mytosis on me *snickers*
but i still like the image of spurs better . . imagine the troll having two short-swords(come on, with the size of those suckers, other metahumans could probably use them as swords) gliding out of his arms . .
i only know female characters that have something in their fingers, not in their arms . . that female wolverine clone from the second X-Men movie, Lady Deathstrike from the older Comics . . no, wait . . there was one . . size/strength about fits too . . Victor Creed alias Caber-Tooth . . i like it o.O consider it done now ^^
Edit: can't believe i still get Hand Blade and Hand Razor mixed up <.< . .
just checked, the handblade actually starts out with STR+3l damage, so later on i can get that to STR+4M Damage . . and when i get the suprathoid gland, then one hand will do 20M Damage . . siick o.O
and the freed up 0,8 essence will be put into another 2 poison sacks. so i get 4 more doses of gamma scopolamine in there. makes 16 doses right now. i think i could overdose a dragon with that O.o
or if i am feeling especially evil. load it up with different stuff . . hyper in one sack, and maybe some strong Acid/Corrosive o.O

[Stahlseele]

as for the improved reflexes level 2?
not worth it. neither essence nor money wise.
only difference is instead of 0,4 at alpha, it will cost 0,8 and more money for a whopping +1 reaction.
and in SR3, reaction wasn't all that important most of the time. only if you can get up to 11, 21, 31 maximum ini it'S worth it. anything in between not so much.
only riggers can use high reaction, as control pool is based on that and vehicle skills use it as the attached attribute.
essence wise it's better to just get improved rection level 1 to the improved reflexes level 1. even on standard you're only at 0,8essence cost instead of 1 point.
and essence is more important than money most of the time
ok, now that he has the hand-blades, he will have the most deadly karate-chop when i am done . . not bad either ^^

[Chance359]

I gotta ask, what in the name of Dunkelzan do you need to hit something that hard for?

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, I had to ask that too. I mean, nice, big damage against some big, scary critters is really nice, but why would you even get CLOSE when your guy could just long-range gun the bastard to death with AV ammo? I mean, even a Troll will hurt like hell if a Juggernaut or Behemoth decided to have a large lunch that day.

I have found, in my experience of Building the Bigger Damage Code(I HAVE done this a couple of times for fun, don't get me wrong), there comes a point of...hmm...I don't think diminished returns is the right word, but just...where it stops mattering. If you can't hurt something with 26M damage, it's undoubtful 28M is going to make any difference; and if it's dead from 22M 99% of the time, 26M is just overkill.

[Stahlseele]

obligatory: BECAUSE I CAN! ^^
and because it's a cool last ditch resolve.
i plan on doing things mostly with the netgun and dart run or other such things.
but higher damage codes are nice to have. and i can carry and lift much anything too . .
which becomes important when heavy gear or just knocked out team-members are there to take care of.
which, in my experience, happens at least once per SESSION and not just per run ^^
probably only our group, but i learn and adapt.
i was told the strong man will be needed again, so i built the strongest POSSIBLE man.
only if i later on get cyberlimbs with our house-rules i can get any stronger still.
and that's enough for me to know ^^
Addendum: Overkill? No. Such. Thing.
and maximum range for bows is what? STRx60? so with str16 i can get up to 960m.
with good eyes i can nail that shot with then 20m totally silenced with a legal sporting device.
and i can deliver pay-load too.
of course, high strength also helps with the ecoil from automatic weapons or burst fire weapons.
and shotguns with burst or autofire do KICK.

[ElFenrir]

Addendum: Overkill? No. Such. Thing.

*looks at the character they made recently themselves with the massive unarmed damage*

Bah. I hate being called out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Well, you do have a good point of carrying things. I mean, from a minmax standpoint, I can see that sometimes squeezing every last point out of one stat might not be the best way of going about it-but that's what critiques are, after all. Nitpicking characters and giving advice. ^^

[Stahlseele]

and in SR4, i'd scratch str for strength immediately ^^
but in SR 3, strength is actually important and usefull.
also all thrown things get easier too, which will be important in the lower skill ranks.
because range grows with strength again.
if i wanted really massive unarmed damage, i could swap the bones for titan some time too.
20M Stun Damage, yeah baby yeah!
edit: this goes out to all of you!
i am immensely gratefull for all of your comments and i do ponder every suggestion thoroughly, but of course, not all will be used.
for example, strength would be too hard to raise later on, but body won't, so i'll sooner use body to get points ^^