Feral Cities, A review Options

[Adam]

Ghost Cartels is not out in hard copy yet either. SF is a little bit of a Luddite, she likes hard books.

Ghost Cartels was available to retail stores on the street date of November 25th, as we announced on November 6th.

[Freejack]

Ghost Cartels is not out in hard copy yet either. SF is a little bit of a Luddite, she likes hard books.

Best check with your FLGS. I got my hard copy a month ago (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Carl

[Critias]

I've only read Chicago so far, but -- maybe it's all the Fallout 3 I've been playing lately -- I'm really digging it.

[PBTHHHHT]

I've only read Chicago so far, but -- maybe it's all the Fallout 3 I've been playing lately -- I'm really digging it.

I'll probably have a hard sell then to convince my roommate to play in Chicago, he played a lot of fallout 3 and left 4 dead, and when I mentioned about a possible game with twilight 2013, he said he didn't feel like playing another post apocalyptic scenario. Man, I just watched a few episodes of jericho, I think I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the survival atmosphere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Wesley Street]

Mad Max-style post-apocalypse is one sub-genre that gets very old, very fast. And most of the time it makes little sense. Where do all those mutants on motorcycles get the gas for their hogs and the bullets for their tricked out guns when there's no infrastructure? Why is it only the crazy hardcases survive when 99% of humans are decent, law-abiding folk?

[kanislatrans]

Why is it only the crazy hardcases survive when 99% of humans are decent, law-abiding folk?

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[PBTHHHHT]

Maybe the crazy hardcases are probably either the ones that stocked up on stuff just for this scenario, or are willing to do things to others so that they can survive... or the last best reason, because they make for a better, interesting character for people to root for/against.

[Muspellsheimr]

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

QFTW.

Where is that from? I have seen/heard it before, but cannot recall where.

[Prime Mover]

Good ole Mel Brooks..quote is from Spaceballs IIRC.

[Critias]

Why is it only the crazy hardcases survive when 99% of humans are decent, law-abiding folk?

Because your 99% estimate is off by quite a bit, maybe?

I'll readily admit it gets overplayed for cinematic/dramatic reasons in Mad Max style stuff, but even the quickest of glances at the history of the species should tell you that far more than one in a hundred people aren't very "decent." And once society breaks down in any fashion (like a nuclear war, biological plague, or whatever else brings the "apocalypse" to a "post-apocalypse" setting) a whole lot of folks who used to be law-abiding stop doing so.

Tack on a few generations (because most such settings are set well after the apocalypse itself) of good, solid, being-raised-lawlessly, add a dose or two of radiation (both to add to the desperation of a setting and to bring up the semi-sci-fi possibility for freaky mutations adding to people's insanity), and salt to taste, and voila. You've got honest-to-Buddha packs of psychos running around, pretty easily.

Even in real life, I'm firmly of the belief that most of the first world is an empty gas tank and a spoiled refrigerator away from Lord of the Flies. I think the "decent" to "fuck you, I want that" breakdown in modern society is a lot closer to a 50/50 than most people want to think.

I'm right there with ya on the gas tanks and ammunition thing, though. I especially wonder why the psycho bad guys shoot their guns into the air to show off how crazy they are. Uhh, those things don't grow on trees, guys. Save the ammo for the folks you're going a-viking against, stupid. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[hermit]

Mad Max-style post-apocalypse is one sub-genre that gets very old, very fast. And most of the time it makes little sense. Where do all those mutants on motorcycles get the gas for their hogs and the bullets for their tricked out guns when there's no infrastructure? Why is it only the crazy hardcases survive when 99% of humans are decent, law-abiding folk?

To paraphrase the opening paragraph of the Germany sourcebook's Berlin chapter:

"We don't have the slightest idea why this crazy system works, but we think it's damn cool and thus could care less."

That seems to be the design mentality for LA and Chicago, to a lesser extent, in the new city books. If it's any condolence to you, though, there has yet to be such an utter pile of shit as the Berlin chapter in Germany SB.

[TW]

I've only read Chicago so far, but -- maybe it's all the Fallout 3 I've been playing lately -- I'm really digging it.

I take this comparison as a compliment, but the Chicago chapter was written between January and March 2008, Fallout 3 was released in October 2008 (IIRC). As mentioned in the Table of contents, inspiration (at least on my part) were Brian Wood's DMZ comic series and China Mieville's New Crobuzon metroplex, aside from the original Bug City sourcebook, of course.

[Critias]

I take this comparison as a compliment, but the Chicago chapter was written between January and March 2008, Fallout 3 was released in October 2008 (IIRC). As mentioned in the Table of contents, inspiration (at least on my part) were Brian Wood's DMZ comic series and China Mieville's New Crobuzon metroplex, aside from the original Bug City sourcebook, of course.

I didn't mean to imply you guys swiped anything from the game (even ignoring the fact the game's set in and around DC, not Chicago)... just that when I read it I was already in a mood for "a lone rifleman wanders a shattered urban wasteland full of roving packs of monsters and barbaric feral humans, bartering for clean water, food, and ammunition, dealing as fairly as possible as he can with every radical, violent, faction he stumbles across" sort of thing.

So it really sounded/read/felt pretty cool to me.

[martindv]

Even in real life, I'm firmly of the belief that most of the first world is an empty gas tank and a spoiled refrigerator away from Lord of the Flies. I think the "decent" to "fuck you, I want that" breakdown in modern society is a lot closer to a 50/50 than most people want to think.

Just look at New Orleans. Even better, when a friend of mine had to leave Houston because of Rita (although they were already on edge because of all of the New Orleans refugees) everyone in his family's SUV was packing (and not just guns, but AR-15s and such) because they had the foresight to carry extra gas on freeways that turned into parking lots full of cars that had run out of gas on their way out of town.

People are awful, and the world is always a hair's breadth away from Hobbes' state of war.

[The Jake]

So after getting bored with the text, I played a bit of a game. The word water or waterway can be found 96 times, which would mean with the law of averages be repeated at least twice per page. In comparison flesh and slavery combined only came out to 56, being repeated only once per page. I guess the moral of the story is don’t drink the water in Lagos and when you want sex go to the nation of Asamondo.

Damn you sir. You've just jinxed the way I read this chapter. What a cruel prank.

*shakes fist*

- J.

[Chrysalis]

It just means that I can screw with your head meat without trodes and psychotropic IC.

It's nice knowing someone read the review.

[Snow_Fox]

I am not a Luddite!

Ghost Cartels and Feral Cities are both listed on Amazon.com The date they project ofr ferral cities is feb '09.

[Grinder]

Amazon.com doesn't have the best reputation for getting release dates right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Snow_Fox]

yeah, but it's something

[Wesley Street]

Because your 99% estimate is off by quite a bit, maybe?

I'll readily admit it gets overplayed for cinematic/dramatic reasons in Mad Max style stuff, but even the quickest of glances at the history of the species should tell you that far more than one in a hundred people aren't very "decent." And once society breaks down in any fashion (like a nuclear war, biological plague, or whatever else brings the "apocalypse" to a "post-apocalypse" setting) a whole lot of folks who used to be law-abiding stop doing so.

I don't think it's off at all. Maybe 99% is a bit of a stretch and "decent" is a debatable term but there are more law-abiding people in the West than professional and amateur criminals. And that would still be true post-apocalypse. A big disaster will wipe out the cities first where most criminal types hang their hats. Bye-bye gangs. Many survivors would be small town, law-abiding types.

Something else to be considered is the middle-class. This is a relatively new phenomena. While history documents the poor and down-trodden turning on each other, we have no historical evidence to support the idea that Suzy Soccer-Mom would trick out her SUV with barb wire and start eating people. It's more likely the survivors would form small farming, mining and/or manufacturing enclaves a la Deadwood than roaming gangs of slobbering pillagers. Even when the Visigoth "barbarians" toppled the Roman Empire the majority of the world was still at peace. Barbarianism is a result of a non-agricultural nomadic lifestyle, not a breakdown in infrastructure.

Mad Max is as intellectually dated as cyberpunk.

[Cang]

Well i think that its especially hard to tell with the middle class because most countries that get close to or do collapse have massive brain dumps. Why would a educated person stay in a place where hacking each other with machetes are the norm. Not to mention that people who go for power grabs like to take out the educated out first.

[Muspellsheimr]

I don't think it's off at all. Maybe 99% is a bit of a stretch and "decent" is a debatable term but there are more law-abiding people in the West than professional and amateur criminals. And that would still be true post-apocalypse. A big disaster will wipe out the cities first where most criminal types hang their hats. Bye-bye gangs. Many survivors would be small town, law-abiding types.

False. Today, the majority of the population (I would estimate ~90%) are "good" people. The reason for this is because of the social structure & law enforcement. They have little reason to steal or otherwise break the law, & the penalty for doing so is far greater than the benefit (in most circumstances).

In a post-apocalyptic setting, where society has broken down & the only law is what you make for yourself, "criminal" behavior would rapidly become the norm. If you shut off food shipments to a large city, within 2 days, shelves would be noticeably depleted. Within 4 days, rioting would likely start. Within 1-2 weeks, nearly the entire population would be ripping each other apart for food. Survival is always first, & even the most upright citizen will rapidly become "criminal" if there was no other option (as would be the case without a coherent society).

[Adam]

Ghost Cartels and Feral Cities are both listed on Amazon.com The date they project ofr ferral cities is feb '09.

Catalyst Game Labs does not sell books to Amazon. They buy our books from another source, so they get them late and do not always get accurate information.

Ghost Cartels was available to the game trade for a street date [that's the date your local gaming store has the book and can sell it] of November 25th, and Feral Cities has a street date of the tuesday-after-next, January 13th.

[wusselpompf]

btw: does this street date (13th Jan.) also apply for overseas, or does one have to add two to three additional weeks for shipping to europe?

[Rasumichin]

btw: does this street date (13th Jan.) also apply for overseas, or does one have to add two to three additional weeks for shipping to europe?

Depends on the retailer.
My FLGS in Cologne had copies of Runner's Companion a few days after the release of the first batch at GenCon.
There where American posters on this board who where still waiting for their copy two weeks later.