IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Updating a Character from BP-Karmagen, utilizing slight time-skip, need some advice
ElFenrir
post Jan 1 2009, 11:19 PM
Post #1


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



So, character updating. First, a quick background:

Stian was my second character made and played in SR4, back in 2005. Didn't get to play him too much, but got some karma under his belt with his team(an all magical team, consisting of a summoner and a combat mage/ganger, both played by our usual group members.) At this time, we really didn't totally know the rules yet, but we figured them out. So this group-none of them really runners, had some runs and a lot of hilarity, but were successful, overall. We were talking a bit and wouldn't mind breaking the team out again when I visit. Or we might do another campaign. Or we don't know. But that's us. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

He was a pure adept-I was still coming off SR3 at the time. But now, we are switching over to the Karma system in it's full-as in 750 points. So I'm tooling him up with this. Since it's more powerful than 400 BP, I am explaining this via time-skip(my mates, all my old group that I've played with in awhile and play with when visiting the US, also remade. Well, I know one of them did-the ganger, and he ended up with some more goodies, naturally), and it seems to work well-8-10 or so months will explain the extra skills, stats, and knowledges.

But in this timeskip, I'm debating taking him the path of the bio-adept. Part of Stian's thing was he liked being a natural adept. He was a bouncer for a seedy black metal club in Oslo-and he's quite the classic Norwegian Black Metal guy, even following the Black Magic path and everything; inverted crosses, dyed black hair, slightly gothic-looking and pale. His main thing was just being the group's main scrapper, decent with pistols, and VERY intimidating; even though he's only a little above average height(6 feet or so), he's just...scary, hence his very high Intimidation score, adept abilities increasing it. He's also damned perceptive, being able to notice things, and I sort of play him as knowing what someone is thinking before they even due, to add to his sort of uncomfortable factor.

His team mainly did lower end jobs-because none of them were runners. I mean, he was a bouncer/sometimes kneebreaker/occasional roadie and bodyguard, the combat mage was a ganger through and through-a very smart ganger, but a ganger nonetheless, and the third was a sort of snobby summoner who had very little to do with the shadows beforehand. But i figure after some months(and the extra points), I'd toss a few lower skills in(like stealth, which we lacked before and it added to the fun and hilarity), that he learned, as well as some more knowledges from Denver(where they were located and he knew little about then.)

What I want help with is figuring out which version I should upgrade him to. I'm trying to think in his head-would he be tempted by the bio, or would he stay natural? Thing is, I don't know. So I admit, I wouldn't mind picking one that seems the most...useful to the team. I don't necessarily mean ''overpowered'', but I mean the version that will bring overall more to the table. I really am torn here. I guess this is half a critique, half a question.

For the record, the houserules in use are our usual Availability out the window, and some Adept houserules-we can use Geasa as in SR3(as in, geasa lower the cost of a power by 25%), and the Improved Physical Attributes has indeed be cut to .5 per level flat. So this narrows the window even more between the two. Even though the characters had some karma, the new karma granted by the boost of power between 400BP-750 Karma sort of overtakes that, and we are still sticking with other chargen limits(half karma for Attributes,

I sadly don't have his original version on the computer-hardcopy only.

What it boils down to, is that Version A-the Pure version-seems to have ''grown'' more with his raw Attributes, Active and Knowledge skills. Version 2 sacrifices some of the new Knowledges and ratings(the old ones are still all there though, and there ARE still improvements), but has 1 point of Bioware-and even more Adept powers, because of the points saved. (I might even extend this to 2-I don't know yet. This is where you guys come in.) Yeah, I admit I can get min-maxy, but I'm at least trying to keep it with his personality.

Martial Arts were also gained with Maneuvers, since these rules didn't exist then.

I won't be posting everything-not gear, etc, as it's really unchanged. But just the core things will be listed. Feel free to comment on MA benefits chosen or maneuvers too, but I picked ones that I felt fit his position of the stuff that he did.

Basically, I want Stian to stay Stian even during the ''timeskip'', but I am having trouble thinking of which way he'd go. He would pick the way that would benefit him, and yeah, his team too(he even started to like them. He and the ork mage get along grand, having similar music tastes). It could be interesting character-wise either way; going under the knife might actually surprise his team a bit, too, since he was known for being a rather natural dude. He always had Sensitive System, but if he realized that Bioware didn't affect it, he might consider it more...or scorn it. Bah.

The Basics:

[ Spoiler ]



Version 1, the Pure:

[ Spoiler ]


Version, 2, Lured by the Call of the Bio:

[ Spoiler ]




I have a feeling what the answer to this will be, knowing DS, and that's ''Option B with more bio!'' But I figured I'd at least TRY the pure version, especially since with those couple houserules in affect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The Pure one also can start basically initating right away and get more levels of stuff, and grab a lot of those powers that the second version has, anyway. Or...well, you could argue that to the second one. I don't feel either version is ''gimped'' (without the houserules in effect, I wouldn't even be posting this, however-I know what I'd do), but...yeah. I like getting advice from others.

I mean, the pure version does have a fair bit more in the Knowledge/Language area, and has a better natural Athletics...and....uhh...can lose stuff in Background Count. At least both of their regular attributes are the same, as are the skills, save said Athletics. The bio version DOES have 10,000 less nuyen for goodies. Both, though, could be the result of someone who had a little more experience shoved into them(hence, again, the 8-10 month timeskip.)

So yeah. Which should I take? Or an unnamed 3rd option? Both could be worked in background-wise easily. I had been wanting to do this for awhile; one of the reasons I liked playing Stian in Shadowrun, was because him and his team weren't really...runners at the time. It was kinda cool.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryu
post Jan 2 2009, 12:43 AM
Post #2


Awakened Asset
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 9-April 05
From: AGS, North German League
Member No.: 7,309



Option B with more Bio, or Option B with Synthacardium 1 instead of the Reflex Recorder.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Jan 2 2009, 01:33 AM
Post #3


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



Think 1 point of Gymnastics extra is worth the loss of one attack-point?

Thinking about it, surviving to make the hit works, and a bouncer being hard to hit is nice. (I also am considering dropping Break Weapon for Clinch. Being able to close in and knee someone in the teeth is kind of nice.)

Here's one I call ''Option B+'':

-Drop Strength to 5, saving 18 BP.
-Convert to 45,000 nuyen.
-Get Muscle Augmentation/Toner +1 level each(15k)
-Get Synthacardium 3(30,000)

Essence would be 4.3 at this point. 4 magic points. Drop Enhanced Gymnastics(with +3 to the Athletics, I think it would more than make up for it), and Perception(his Perceptive quality at level 2, and high Intuition/Natural skill with contacts/earbuds should give him plenty.) Also drop Improved Unarmed(the +1 Agility would make up for the lost point, keeping the pool the same.) So it would look:


B: 5
A: 5(7)
R: 5(6)
S: 5(7)
C: 4
I: 5
L: 2
W: 4
E: 4
I: 10/1[11/2]
Ess: 4.3
Magic: 6(4)

All adept powers except aformentioned four, and skills the same.

My only issue with ''option B+'' is that last .3 essence. If I'm losing magic for this, I want to squeeze more stuff out of it. Now, we don't have Availability limits, so I could go higher on some things/get some other odds and ends, but I'd need more cash from somewhere(the 30k will all be needed for a vehicle, lifestyle, and equipment.) So I need to dig up a few more nuyen and stuff to add up to .3 if I use this one. But it certainly looks to be the most powerful of the three builds, and it's not a huge amount of 'ware he's getting.

Perhaps scratching up 20k to get Bone Density lv. 1 for a bit of extra damage reduction might be a good call.

The other thing is: I still might fool with the powers to work in Smashing Blow somehow. Though he didn't have it before, and I could explain that he learned it in the little time-skip, but I can't really think of what to cut out. I'd have to do it in plain ol' option B if I used it, as he seems to have the widest variety of powers to play with there.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Jan 2 2009, 01:43 AM
Post #4


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



From a number crunching standpoint, you should stay pure if you want to max out ranks in 1-2 powers, like Critical Strike and Combat Sense, for example. If you are not and can afford to take the Magic/Essense loss, bio is generally more effective and only slightly less efficient in the long run.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Jan 2 2009, 10:25 AM
Post #5


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



I was thinking that. The whole pure mage/adept vs. the one with 1-2 points of ware sort of get me thinking now and then. For example, our combat mage is pure. He is one awesome spellcaster. He actually isn't bad with his monowhip, either; but his summoning wasn't super-high. But in general, mage A and mage B-one with, one without-can both initiate at the same cost(I think it's 10+Gradex3 Karma per initiation, regardless if your magic is 1 or 6), mage B will need to buy back some Magic with Karma(I know they are still allowed magic+grade in Magic.) Mage A coming out will be able to sling spells harder with less drain; mage B will be a solid slinger, but need to push himself to get to the higher Forces, but be more well-rounded in stats and skills, likely.

Same with Adepts-I know I could eventually get his Magic back to 6 and still have rank 6 Critical Strike/Combat Sense(I'll probably end up getting more power points with initiations, as the optional rule-we tend to open up as many options as possible), and even beyond; but yeah, it will cost me a handful more Karma(33 to get magic back to 6, and 29 to initiate twice.) But I see what you mean-with 2 more power points, that's Critical Strike 2 and Combat Sense 3(the latter of which I kind of wouldn't have minded getting, but ran out of points, so it can wait.) Btw-checking the original draft again, he had a Magic Background skill; so I'll re-work that in. I would assume he knows somewhat of the drill here with that. And I do see what you mean with a bit easier-the pure adept, for a mere 45 karma-12 more than above-can have an 8 magic.

And yeah, from a role-play sense, it could be cool either way-either he stays pure and is rather proud that even while others he knew went under the knife, he still does it natural....or he can give in, and even secretly scorn himself a tiny bit; even though he might like the abilities it gives him, he might think himself having gone a bit weak and ''taken the easy way out.''

Hmmm...I might even be leaning toward that third option at this pint.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryu
post Jan 2 2009, 11:05 AM
Post #6


Awakened Asset
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 9-April 05
From: AGS, North German League
Member No.: 7,309



QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Jan 2 2009, 02:33 AM) *
Think 1 point of Gymnastics extra is worth the loss of one attack-point?

Thinking about it, surviving to make the hit works, and a bouncer being hard to hit is nice. (I also am considering dropping Break Weapon for Clinch. Being able to close in and knee someone in the teeth is kind of nice.)

Yes. The marginal dice for Unarmed will usually not be needed, but a die for full defense is pretty valuable. I also like high Athletics pools for climbing and jumping. I´d like that even more if I played an adept.

QUOTE
Here's one I call ''Option B+'':

-Drop Strength to 5, saving 18 BP.
-Convert to 45,000 nuyen.
-Get Muscle Augmentation/Toner +1 level each(15k)
-Get Synthacardium 3(30,000)

Essence would be 4.3 at this point. 4 magic points. Drop Enhanced Gymnastics(with +3 to the Athletics, I think it would more than make up for it), and Perception(his Perceptive quality at level 2, and high Intuition/Natural skill with contacts/earbuds should give him plenty.) Also drop Improved Unarmed(the +1 Agility would make up for the lost point, keeping the pool the same.) So it would look:

A definite yes on the dropped powers. It will likely not surprise you that I advocate specialising adept powers instead of buying a load of dp +1 mods. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The 0.3 essence left are actually nice - since you are playing him on the way of the bio-adept, being able to ponder some additional implants ingame is very nice.

Powers:
I guess that critical strike is really to good to pass up. I´d personally go for Critical Strike 2 and Elemental Strike.

Adept Powers(4 points) :
Critical Strike Lv. 2-0.5
Killing Hands-.5
Elemental Strike 0.5

Astral Perception-1
Combat Sense Lv. 2-1
Kinesics Lv. 1. -0.5
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Jan 2 2009, 11:23 AM
Post #7


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



Or, if I really wanted to go Twinkarific(the words I've invented and seen invented on these game sites are astounding (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ), I could take another +1 DV with his other martial art for the max +3; I keep hearing 1 DV is roughly equal to 2-3 points of soak, so it's not a BAD thing to have. This way he would only lose 1 level of damage. (We use the old Hardliner rules, and have them add a flat +1 to the DV of Unarmed attacks, and he has the gloves/steel-cap boot combo; so he'd be at 4(base)+3(MA)+2(Crit Strike)+1(Hardliners) for 10P, and the Elemental Strike(I notice some folks prefer elemental, other Penetrating, I guess it's more of a personal choice there) will get rid of some of the armor. I mean, it's his main mode of attack, so I don't want to lower it too much, but I did want to make sure he had a solid ranged attack(SA pistol+Smartlink+7 agility is a very, very nice 13 dice, so he's just fine at range.)

And I really love Combat Sense; but yeah, I admit, cutting the Critical Strike kinda hurt. Mystic Armor is nice, though-since he has Astral Perception/Astral Combat, I kind of wanted the small boost to his armor; but I suppose 2 levels of combat sense(hence, defense) will again sort of make up for that.

I see your point to Kinesics 1 vs. Improved Intimidation 2-1 less die for Intimidation, 1 more die for everything. Yeah, Kinesics really is that good. I had been considering this myself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Thinking about it, saving the bit of essence indeed might be nice. I do kind of have that nagging ''damnit, I dropped magic for this, I should use this up!'' but, in his case, being a relative ''bio noob'', it might actually make sense.

I'll write all of that down with some of the new changes and see how it all looks together on paper. All of the basic, core powers and skills he had before are there, with some new additions that he might have developed, and powers that he had lost due to the 'ware, so it's not like he's a totally different character.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryu
post Jan 2 2009, 12:25 PM
Post #8


Awakened Asset
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 9-April 05
From: AGS, North German League
Member No.: 7,309



I think 9P base damage will be quite sufficient, more so with Finishing Blow. I´d replace Set Up with Sweep personally.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Jan 2 2009, 12:38 PM
Post #9


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



Ahh...Sweep, knock them down while damaging them, +2 dice prone, Finishing Blow?

Set Up looked mighty temping, and I've seen it used to awesome effect, but you do need to, well, sort of ''pull'' that first hit to really get it to work. I imagine, since Option B-2 would be rolling 15 dice(16 with kick attack), he wouldn't need it as much(set up seems to benefit the lower die pools more, at a glance.)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 08:16 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.