Totem Mods, Where do they get off? Options

[Lilt]

I was just wondering exactly how people apply totem modifiers in the games they run/play in.

I think that the options range from applying them as small dice pools, applying them like foci in that they don't count against the number of pool dice you can add, and applying them as extra to all applicable tests.

There is also the question of what combination of skill, drain resistance, and spell defense (in the case of sorcery modifiers) tests they are applied to, and wether or not they may be applied more than once in a single action.

By my reading of the rules they are about as powerful as they can be, applying dice to all tests appropriate to the modifier without needing to refresh as a pool. In that bracket I include drain resistance tests and spell defense tests (allong with the explicitly stated applications for banishing spirits ETC).

IE: Summoning a nature spirit (that you have a modifier for) gives +2 dice to conjure and +2 dice to resist drain.

What are other people's readings of the rules?

[RedmondLarry]

For Conjuring or Sorcery totem advantages, we play that the shaman splits the bonus dice between the Success Test and the Drain Test as he wants. Disadvantages we apply just to the Success Test unless the Totem description says otherwise.

We discussed, in our team, the possibility of using the advantages on the success test and the drain test, but felt that magic was already powerful enough in our game.

If casting multiple spells in the same complex action, the shaman gets the totem modifiers for each spell.

[Fortune]

I've always treated them as being applied once for each Action. That is to say, if the Shaman is casting a spell for which he has a Totem Modifier, he applies that modifier once, to his choice of Casting or Drain. These dice are seperate from the Spell Pool, and do not count towards the limits applied to such.

There is no refreshing of Totem Modifiers in my game. If the character performs an action to which he would normally get the Totem Modifier, then he does so, regardless of how many times he has used it in the same round, with the caveat that it can only be used once per action, as described above.

[Seidaku]

As I don't have my book with me, I'll have to go from memory.. but when I looked up this very thing, it specifically said that the totem bonus/penalties are applied to sorcery/conjuring tests. So, no way to add them to drain or the like.

[mfb]

it doesn't matter. you can add the bonus dice to your sorcery/conjuring test, and then withold actual sorcery/conjuring dice for your drain test.

[Lilt]

It actually says in the conjuring drain section that totem modifiers apply.

It dosen't say totem modifiers apply to either sorcery or sorcery drain tests that I can find.

[Mal-2]

SR3, pg 163, under Totem Modifiers: "A shaman gains bonus dice when using Sorcery or Conjuring according to the totem's ideals. The shaman may also lose dice when using magical skills outside the totem's realm. These bonuses and penalties are called totem modifiers. They add or subtract from the final number of dice rolled for particular tests, but do not otherwise modify the shaman's skill rating."

I don't see any further mentions of totem modifiers until we get to the section on conjuring nature spirits on p. 186: "The force of the spirit chosen is the target number of a Conjuring test. Totem modifiers and extra dice from spirit foci can be applied to this test. The shaman may hold Conjuring dice in reserve to help with the Drain Resistance Test."

Based on that, I assume the totem modifier dice are applied to any Sorcery or Conjuring test. Sorcery or Conjuring skill dice can be held for Drain Tests as normal.

Mal-2

[mfb]

heh. from that wording, it could be argued that you apply the totem bonus to each set of die rolled when casting multiple spells in one action.

[Zazen]

That's exactly what I do. I don't think there's any reason to get rid of it.

[Fortune]

[BIG BAD BEESTE]

As written, you apply/subract the bonus/penalty dice to the Sorcery or Conjuring Test. This is for each test, so if you are casting multiple spells it applies to each roll you make. Treat it in the same way as you would any other form of bonus dice - IE: Move-By-Wire dice to Athletics and Stealth Tests. Everytime you roll that skill you add those bonuus dice. Simple.

However, the way this is worded in the rulebook seems to be bringing about confusion. A Drain Resistance Test is something entirely different from a Conjuring/Sorcery/Enchanting Test. It doesn't use the skill because its based upon Willpower attribute. Therefore you don't get to apply those bonus dice to these tests.

The exception here is if the bonus dice are saved from the Skill Test, as in the conjuring example above. The magician gets the option of where they want to use them. Just to make sure they're not pool dce so they don't need to refresh either.

Just to note, the Skill's Rating is not increased. Therefore all normal restrictions therein apply too. IE: No more Pool Dice than the Skill Rating, even though you then add those bonus dice afterwards. The same goes for inreasing the Skill's Rating with Good Karma - the cost is calculated upon the actual rating without including the bonus dice.

[Lilt]

[Mal-2]

[Lilt]

[Hasaku]

I think we can safely assume that this is an exception for conjuring and that you don't get extra dice to the sorcery test AND drain resistance.

[Lilt]