Runs-With-Miniguns, Making +14 penalties laughable... Options

[The Jake]

With +14 recoil on a minigun and double the modifiers on uncompensated recoil, these babies are monsters.

But I have a dream - a fixation on anything that full automatic gunfire is described as a "high pitched metalline whine" (going back to the days of CP2020).

If I wanted to build a troll heavy weapon specialist, how would you build the troll to ignore +14 worth of penalties at chargen? Is it doable.

WIth a high strength and gyromount, you could ignore a fair bit, but certainly not all.

Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

- J.

[Stahlseele]

foot-anchors?
weapon-mods probably.
argue with the GM that as the gun has 6 barrels, using 6 heavy barrels will give you 6 points of recoil-compensation.
then duck and pray the Gm does not use HARD-Cover to hit you with ^^

[Fix-it]

I would make him a rigger and thus it would not be a problem.

/not helpful at all.

[Dragnar]

Two words: Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman. Problem solved (well, apart from the problem of finding a troll-sized one...)

[Chance359]

See if you can convince your GM to gas vent each barrel.

[The Jake]

I was thinking wrist based gyromounts + foot anchors. Not sure how that would work with a gyromount harness, if at all however....

- J.

[Cain]

High Edge. Go Longshot.

[WeaverMount]

High Edge. Go Longshot.

Predictable much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Onto the twinkery. You need 14 points of recoil modification. it isn't that hard really

14 base
-6 Gyromount
---
8 remaining
-3 Gas vent 3
-1 Under barrel weight
-1 Personalized grip
-----
3 remaining
-3 strength 12
----
0


Strenth 12 is doable with customized cyber limbs from char gen


enjoy

[AngelisStorm]

Troll.
Str 14 (troll, bioware, possibly gene or changling mods) = 3pts
Gas-Vent 3 = 3pts
Gyromount = 6pts
Personalized Grip = 1pt
Hip Pad = 1pt

You can use electronic firing instead of personalized grip.
You can use a heavy barrel instead of something worth 1pt.
You can use the foot spikes from Augmentation in place of something worth 1pt.

And I'm not sure if it's cannon, but in my game you could use two arm gyromounts (one in each arm) in place of the normal gyromount.

(That's the trick. Pulling off the minugun trick without the big bulky gyromount.)

[vollmond]

troll w/ str 10 (2)
heavy barrel (1)
personalized grip (1)
gas-vent (3)
hip pad (1)
gyro-stabilization (6)

14 points of compensation, no 'ware needed.

[The Jake]

I didn't think barrel mounted (gas vent) accessories were permitted with heavy weapons?

- J.

[Starmage21]

they are, just not with miniguns. Doesnt make sense though, since only 1 barrel is firing at a time, the vents could be arranged appropriately so to prevent muzzle climb.

[HentaiZonga]

They're really best used for Suppressive Fire, anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And that way your Troll can fire two of them, one underslung under each arm!

[The Jake]

They're really best used for Suppressive Fire, anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And that way your Troll can fire two of them, one underslung under each arm!

I did read that in the rules but I don't see how you could do that and cope with recoil.

However, you could easily with the gauss rifle...

- J.

[AngelisStorm]

Since when can't you use Gas-Vent on Mini-guns.

[pbangarth]

I did read that in the rules but I don't see how you could do that and cope with recoil.
However, you could easily with the gauss rifle...
- J.

Well, suppressive fire is defined to ignore recoil (SR4, p. 144, 2nd paragraph under Suppressive Fire), so why worry? Let the troll go to town!

Actually, for in many instances it would be better not to ignore recoil, as one can compensate for lots of recoil, and therefore the wide burst aspect of suppressive fire would apply.

Peter

[AngelisStorm]

I thought that to pbangarth, but then I edited my responce because I reread it and noticed they were talking about a minigun in each hand, using suppressive. Since supressive fire takes a complex action, can you dual wield mini-guns (or more realistically, Uzis) laying down cover fire?

[pbangarth]

Good point.

Peter

[The Jake]

Since when can't you use Gas-Vent on Mini-guns.

I stand corrected. They can use top, barrel and underbarrel mounted accessories. I misread Arsenal.

On a side note, you can't stack bonuses from gyromounts.

Well, suppressive fire is defined to ignore recoil (SR4, p. 144, 2nd paragraph under Suppressive Fire), so why worry? Let the troll go to town!

Actually, for in many instances it would be better not to ignore recoil, as one can compensate for lots of recoil, and therefore the wide burst aspect of suppressive fire would apply.

Peter

I don't normally believe in dual wielding guns. I ascribe to the belief that if you have to dual wield, you're not using a big enough gun.

But for dual wielding a minigun, I may reconsider.

- J.

[AngelisStorm]

Real men drink whiskey and dual wield revolvers.

Hmmm good point Jake. However I like the option to use 2 cyberlimb gyromounts (1 in each arm) to replace the big bulky gyromounts. It's just a good mental image.

Actually Suppressive Fire is one of the things I don't really quiet "get" in SR. I get that people can fire a gun faster when they have multiple IP, because the effect is that they are able to aim and accurately fire quicker (someone with 4 IP and someone with 1 IP can both point a gun in the air and basically fire equally fast).

But Suppresive Fire? Your just pulling down the trigger and spraying. So does Suppresive take 1 complex action for each IP you have in a round? Does it take 1 complex action when you initiate it, and you can use the rest of your complex actions in later phases (but your gun is already in use)? Or can someone with 4 IP make 4 suppressive fire attacks a round?

(I don't like complicating rules, but depending on the answer to the above, I wish they had added "full round actions" to the system. Some things you really can't do faster just because you have extra IP. You can however make a shopping list in your head while your ever so quick brain twiddles its thumbs.)

(I've been dealing with school stuff all day. I hope the above made sense.)

[HentaiZonga]

I thought that to pbangarth, but then I edited my responce because I reread it and noticed they were talking about a minigun in each hand, using suppressive. Since supressive fire takes a complex action, can you dual wield mini-guns (or more realistically, Uzis) laying down cover fire?

sure, just split the dice pool!

[Navar]

I really don't have anything helpful to say. However, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor at the image of a troll holding a mini-gun under each arm. Its the stuff of legends.

Actually I wonder how insane a troll adept with ambidextrous and other such qualities along with improved heavy weapons would fare with the usage of that weapon setup.

[HentaiZonga]

I really don't have anything helpful to say. However, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor at the image of a troll holding a mini-gun under each arm. Its the stuff of legends.

Actually I wonder how insane a troll adept with ambidextrous and other such qualities along with improved heavy weapons would fare with the usage of that weapon setup.

make sure to give him an Intimidation specialization of "Minigun".

[Shrapnel]

Since when can't you use Gas-Vent on Mini-guns.

I think you've got that backwards... The question should really be "Since when did they allow you to use Gas-Vent on Miniguns?".

Previous editions have prohibited the use of Gas-Vent (or any barrel-mounted accessory, for that matter) on the GE Vindicator Minigun. It appears that only since Arsenal is this now allowed.

I don't agree with it personally, but according to what The Jake has been previously posted, it does appear to be RAW.

[Noirfatale]

sorry to blow your bubble but it is impossible to mount a gas vent on a minigun.

ask a gunsmith.

as for RPG rules: SR4 p 311

Gas-vent systems can be built into machine pistols, SMGs,
assault rifles, and machine guns.

machine guns are not movin rotating cannon .

A gas vent vents the gas back and up witch push the gun in the opposite direction of recoil.

also gas vent need space to work properly wich they dont have on a minigun. And lets consider the effect of spinning on the exhaust gas how can it work properly? The bullet exits before de gas and the cannon is already in mouvement when the gas effect should conter the recoil for the next shot. We have played with a lot of gas vent at the gun range and shot from light to heavy .50 and I seriuosly doubt that would work.

of course we can argue until we are blue in the face, say that miniguns are machineguns and yada yada.

The best course of action would be to ask the catalyst guys for a rule call in the next FAQ or Errata.