Anonymity as a lifestyle, Need help with rules tweak Options

[Rotbart van Dain...]

If they cannot locate you within a few hours, they generally assume you no longer have "the package" & will leave you alone, unless you slaughtered their entire security force.

Maybe you want to reread RC, p. 22-27. It starts with:

Maybe you've cracked an MCT zero zone or hacked a Renraku research net and you're feeling good about yourself. Now that the job is finished, you can take off your runner cap and go home. Slip right in to your civilian life, right? If that's what you think, you might want to consider another line of work. There was a time when a simple mask was all the anonymity that you needed. As long as you hadn't left a bloody trail of DNA and wore gloves, you were relatively safe. These days? Not so much.

[Larme]

I don't have RC, and the more I hear about it the less I like it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Anyway, who's saying that? Is that the "rules" section, or is it a chatter on Shadowland talking, or is it just flavor text which accompanies the rules? Cuz if it's the advice of one runner, he's not necessarily correct. And if it's Fanpro adding iterations of complexity to a fun and streamlined game system, as everything in Companion seems to be, they can bite the least compelling part of my ass.

[Hagga]

Not to brust your bouble but Material Link is still in, it's in Street Magic.





The material Link is destroyed in the proces of spelcasting; what you propose is a bit suicidical.



EDIT: Ops, It was already answered.

That's strange. Must have missed that sentence; what page? It's been mentioned in so many books now that we've been takingi t as canon - and probably will continue in situations like that where the link is a large and foul tempered (meta)human.

[Heath Robinson]

Larme,
I think Catalyst just accepts that the Pink Mohawkers already knows how to play their style and is feeding the Black Opsers some extra fluff to make RC more worthwhile for them. How you play SR4 is all about which of the vast swathes of the fluff you ignore already. Adding more to one or more of the swathes is not seriously a big deal.


RC is mostly options for Pink Mohawk, Escapist, and Method Actor crowds, so I don't have objections to seeing Black Ops players get some info out of it. Each sourcebook ought to try to be equal oppurtunities for all play styles.

[hyzmarca]

That particular section of RC was really a push. First, it gives you all the ways the authorities can screw you. Then it tells you exactly why they can't actually do any of that.

[Larme]

That particular section of RC was really a push. First, it gives you all the ways the authorities can screw you. Then it tells you exactly why they can't actually do any of that.

Hooray! Anger... fading. Urge to kill... abating. You'd better thank this man, Rotbart, he just saved your life.

(cookie if you get the reference, negative cookie if someone can't get this one, it's easy!)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

First, it gives you all the ways the authorities can screw you.

Actually, it gives you all the ways you can screw up...

Then it tells you exactly why they can't actually do any of that.

..then it tells you why it won't get you killed right away, just when it 'really matters'.

Most of the time, though, it tells you how to become... anonymous.

[Larme]

Anger... taking over!

Anyway, it seems like there is more than one way to look at this. I don't think the developers are going to tell you there's one exactly perfect level of paranoia for a game, each GM will set the appropriate level depending on her preferences. I submit that the appropriate level is "not much paranoia," because the GM unleashing "consequences" for the runners engaging in basic story-line advancing is distracting, pointless, and tends to feel like a vendetta over nothing. GMs should use "consequences" to advance the story, or to punish dumb player behavior (they must be punished or they'll never learn!) but when the game goes to everyone wearing masks in public, speaking through voice modulators, and living in dumpsters to escape detection, and killing anyone who sees their real face or hears their real voice, it gets to be a really stupid game, IMO. In fact, probably the gayest pkills I've ever heard about were by paranoia-obsessed runners who used fear of getting caught/identified as an excuse to whip out their pnpWang to prove it was the biggest.

[wind_in_the_ston...]

Can you back that up?

A lot of this has been touched on already, but I'll add my thoughts.

So your stuff has RFID tags. Who knows the codes on those tags? What would they have to go through to find out what tags they are, and then do the research to find the codes belonging to hose tags? Who's going to be following your around, looking for stuff you dropped, or breaking into your apartment hoping to make a magical link (who isn't just going to shoot you when they see you)? And people in the shadows are generally (but not always) less concerned with tracking down your presence through your SIN usage than they are in just finding the right people to direct them to you.

And here's a better question - who's looking for you?

An MCT corpsec team? Why do they want to find you? Revenge? They don't care about you - they're looking for the guy who hired you, and the stuff you took. Granted, they might try to find you to get to your Johnson, but a ski mask should do wonders to help keep them off your trail. And also, try not to do anything to make it personal for them. Their facilities will not have scanners in every doorway of their facilities that pick up every possible RF trace on you, which they could use to identify you, and even if they did how will they locate you in the metroplex, unless you walk back through their doors?

Now look at the section on enemies on Runner's Companion that I quoted (oops, I didn't say where that was). This should give you a rough idea of the physical resources and the time that a hunt would require, and also give an indication of how obsessed these people are and how important it is for them to find you.

Something else to read is a section in Unwired (I forget where) about how difficult it is to do data searches. Sure every time you walk on the street, your picture is taken on some video camera every five meters, but it's the same for tens of thousands of people. Thousands of people on each camera, thousands of cameras. Who's going to see you?

A GM can certainly make it a plot point to have them find you and either attack you, or set you up, but a good GM is going to make it a challenge, not the end of his story line. And this can always be done by good old fashioned legwork (admittedly GM fiat), rather than him telling you you didn't take care of every possible minute detail, that no enemy would really find anyway. The first is a GM making a story and taking responsibility for the potential outcome. In the second, the GM is covering his ass by making some shit up and telling you it's all your own fault.

[Blade]

I think that what they're trying to express is this:
Corps are powerful, and they have the means to find you, even if you do your best to hide because they are a lot of ways you can screw up and it's likely you didn't think of everything.
So what it comes down to is what it will cost to get you (which will depend on how much you've screwed up) and what they're willing to spend (both in money and human resources) to get you (which will depend on a lot of things).

[AllTheNothing]

That's strange. Must have missed that sentence; what page? It's been mentioned in so many books now that we've been takingi t as canon - and probably will continue in situations like that where the link is a large and foul tempered (meta)human.

Street Magic p.29 tird paragraph, first phrase: "The process of ritual spellcasting destroys the material link".
Well if you have the metahuman you can just produce the link from him/her and use it without harming him/her (if you have him/her you don't need to use ritual sorcery for harming him/her). At least RAW, in my games I would allow him/her to suffer no ill effect.... or maybe to resist Force points of physical damage due with willpower, if the resulting damage is lower than willpower the damage is stun.

[AllTheNothing]

Hooray! Anger... fading. Urge to kill... abating. You'd better thank this man, Rotbart, he just saved your life.

(cookie if you get the reference, negative cookie if someone can't get this one, it's easy!)

Antimatter cookies? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I'm not familiar of untranslated english movies (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) . Will you spare me this time?

[AllTheNothing]

Anger... taking over!

Anyway, it seems like there is more than one way to look at this. I don't think the developers are going to tell you there's one exactly perfect level of paranoia for a game, each GM will set the appropriate level depending on her preferences. I submit that the appropriate level is "not much paranoia," because the GM unleashing "consequences" for the runners engaging in basic story-line advancing is distracting, pointless, and tends to feel like a vendetta over nothing. GMs should use "consequences" to advance the story, or to punish dumb player behavior (they must be punished or they'll never learn!) but when the game goes to everyone wearing masks in public, speaking through voice modulators, and living in dumpsters to escape detection, and killing anyone who sees their real face or hears their real voice, it gets to be a really stupid game, IMO. In fact, probably the gayest pkills I've ever heard about were by paranoia-obsessed runners who used fear of getting caught/identified as an excuse to whip out their pnpWang to prove it was the biggest.

I won't report the whole paragraph but at the beginning of "SURVIVAL TIPS GAME INFORMATIONS" (RC p.33) there's a line that says: "However, the impact and indeed pervasiveness of surveillance, border controls, security checks, and general passive obstacles runners will encounter in any given game is up to the gamemaster and group's play style.".
Paranoia should be the spice, security that little thing meant to hinder you that you dodge, passing right under their noses having a blast playing the rules (laws in SR, not what is in the BBB) against themselves; it's about the thrill of dancing with the dragon at your own music, not about being assholes.

[AllTheNothing]

I think that what they're trying to express is this:
Corps are powerful, and they have the means to find you, even if you do your best to hide because they are a lot of ways you can screw up and it's likely you didn't think of everything.
So what it comes down to is what it will cost to get you (which will depend on how much you've screwed up) and what they're willing to spend (both in money and human resources) to get you (which will depend on a lot of things).

In other words:
Be as least disruptive as possible (the best run is the one that the corp you run against never knows it happened), and whatever keep the bodycount low (possibly to zero).
Do what you are there for and nothing else, don't take suvenirs, don't cause unneeded damage, DON'T kill needlessly.
Don't leav a trail that leads to you, don't brag around, don't be stupid.

[Larme]

I won't report the whole paragraph but at the beginning of "SURVIVAL TIPS GAME INFORMATIONS" (RC p.33) there's a line that says: "However, the impact and indeed pervasiveness of surveillance, border controls, security checks, and general passive obstacles runners will encounter in any given game is up to the gamemaster and group's play style.".
Paranoia should be the spice, security that little thing meant to hinder you that you dodge, passing right under their noses having a blast playing the rules (laws in SR, not what is in the BBB) against themselves; it's about the thrill of dancing with the dragon at your own music, not about being assholes.

Hooray! The book says it's up to the GM, there's no one "required" canon level of security! So anyone who says so can bite my datajack! And as for my own opinions about the best level of security, I think they're good arguments for what makes the most fun -- though there are probably obsessive compulsive simulationists out there who would disagree...

[ornot]

Can I have my cookie?

Mr. Furious from Mystery Men.

[Drogos]

I would contend that the only canon level of security provided is Mitsuhama's Zero Zone policy, which has been stated to apply to some facilities and not others. However, what that means to a particular group is up to the GM running it. I know in our games that running a ZZ facility needs to be handled with the utmost care and anonimity...and we probably aren't all going to make it out alive, but that sort of challenge is fun for us.

[Larme]

Can I have my cookie?

Mr. Furious from Mystery Men.

Cookie

I would contend that the only canon level of security provided is Mitsuhama's Zero Zone policy, which has been stated to apply to some facilities and not others. However, what that means to a particular group is up to the GM running it. I know in our games that running a ZZ facility needs to be handled with the utmost care and anonimity...and we probably aren't all going to make it out alive, but that sort of challenge is fun for us.

I dunno, why bother infiltrating a zero zone? Why not instead try to use network to manipulate someone into declaring war on Mitsuhama, and carpet bombing the zero zone? It would take a lot of legwork, but ultimately it would be a far safer, lazier solution, with much more satisfying explosions, the kind that create the chaos you need to sneak in, rather than the kind that are centered on your scrotum.