IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Tuned Combatrules, We've dropped Dodge.. Advices on finetuning now needed
i101
post Jan 10 2009, 03:42 AM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 194
Joined: 30-August 07
Member No.: 12,989



Hello fellow Dumpshockers,
my players begged for quicker and deadlier combatrules.. So we came up with the idea to drop the dodge part..

Attacker rolls: Agility + Combat Skill +/- modifiers
Example: Joe Streetsam rolls with agility 7, firearms 4 and his smartlink +2 (13d6) 4 hits. He is using an Ceska Black Scorpion that does 4k.

Defender rolls: Body + 'leftover' Ballistic points to resist damage plus Attackers hits. Subtract armor - damage code, remaining armor points count as additional dice for damage resistance.
Example: Tim Gangbanger wears an armorwest. Ballistic (6) - damadge code (4) = +2. Tim Gangbanger rolls now with his Body (4), plus 2 dice leftover from his armorwest against 4 hits, to resist damadge.

In case that the Victim in this example has worn a leather jacket instead the armor west, it would work this way:
Example: Tim Gangbanger wears a leather jacket. Ballistic (2) - damadge code (4) = -2. Tim Gangbanger rolls now with his Body (4) against 4 hits + 2 damadge = 6 hits, to resist damadge.


I know dropping dodge is a serious intervention of the SR4 combat rules, but sofar the tuned combatrules we came up with, worked bloody nice. I have to say, that we also had to drop customized armor (arsenal).
Anyhow, I would like to hear your point of view on this houseruling, and possible advices what could be done different would be nice too.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jhaiisiin
post Jan 10 2009, 05:16 AM
Post #2


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,416
Joined: 4-March 06
From: Albuquerque
Member No.: 8,334



My first and biggest question is this:

Why would you do this? You've already hit a major issue. After all, if you remove dodge from the game, then *no one* can completely avoid damage, period, ever. They could reduce it down, but the very idea of not being able to dodge an attack seems... well just wrong on so many levels.

Honestly, your ruling seems okay for your game. You'll know more when you playtest it to verify that things are where your group wants them. I can't offer any more comment than that because the idea of removing dodge is inconceivable to me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Telion
post Jan 10 2009, 05:43 AM
Post #3


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 152
Joined: 11-May 06
Member No.: 8,547



Dodge was never an automatic choice in previous incarnations of SR. It was something done if you had to through the use of a limited combat pool. So I say feel free to remove it, bring back the grittiness and let them seek cover instead.

I'd consider keeping full dodges or allow edge to call a dodge test for those staring down the barrel of BFG moments.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dragnar
post Jan 10 2009, 09:30 AM
Post #4


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 386
Joined: 28-November 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 16,638



From a game mechanic's perspective the solution makes reaction a dump stat for every non-rigger, though, even for combat characters. The few points to initiative are easily overshadowed by actual initiative enhancers and the dice to damage resistance (because the "dodge test" is nothing more than a second, better damage resistance test) were the main reason for mr. regularrunner not to dump reaction (just as no one in their right mind dumps con).
Adding to strength that makes two dumps, which starts creeping up the "important" stats and thus, the power level (especially for non-combatants, which save quite some points for no disadvantage).

Besides that, I personally don't see the reason to remove dodge, but that's for you and your group to decide, so I won't comment on that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Silk
post Jan 10 2009, 09:37 AM
Post #5


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 2-December 08
Member No.: 16,652



I came up with some house-rules that I haven't tried yet where you remove the opposed test. The attacker rolls his dice vs. a threshold based on range: Short 2, Med 3, Long 4, Extreme 5. Some of the dice modifiers from the ranged modifiers chart then became threshold modifiers instead. I thought it would speed up combat some, don't know about making it more deadly though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Jan 10 2009, 12:57 PM
Post #6


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



QUOTE
Adding to strength that makes two dumps, which starts creeping up the "important" stats and thus, the power level (especially for non-combatants, which save quite some points for no disadvantage).



I was thinking this, too. I mean, if you really want to get down to it, for a Sam-type, Strength is often not really maximized due to 'ware, stuff like combat axes that increase damage more, or Martial Arts rules which add more damage regardless of strength. Most sams I know are happy with a strength of 3-5, which honestly, does the job since often they'd have these things. Or, hell, they just take the Monowhip. This rule, yes...now Reaction is dumped, giving more dice for Body and Agility, the latter being the Big stat. But now add, say, Logic in here-most sams can get away with a low-average Logic(2 isn't bad for a sam.) Now they can start pumping up Edge, which is amazingly good. Of course, with higher die pools on both sides there becomes a high body count on BOTH sides of the fence. But again, if it's fun for your games, I say go for it, but be aware what might start happening.

Combat, as is, even with dodge can be very deadly(especially the Surprise rules), so I never really saw it not deadly enough, but different stuff happens at different tables. I guess a table who has a lot of Dodge or Gymnastics twinks might see a much lower bodycount in general.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
i101
post Jan 10 2009, 02:13 PM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 194
Joined: 30-August 07
Member No.: 12,989



QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Jan 10 2009, 12:16 AM) *
My first and biggest question is this:

Why would you do this? You've already hit a major issue. After all, if you remove dodge from the game, then *no one* can completely avoid damage, period, ever.

Cause we have the feeling that, first: an average wired player cant be hit that easy, second: there are still too much dice to roll during combat. Back in the days (SR2) the attacker had his roll, and then the defender, and thats it. Either you got shot, or you had luck. These days players can count additionally to their body and armor stats on their reaction to resist a fight. A normal enemy cant hurt them, they are quicker then the average opponents, not afraid to fight against 2-3 gangbangers, or even cops. Yes, I know the more people are involved into a fight the harder it gets, but who cares if you have an average edge stat of 3, and raction of 7. Like Dragnar said ''the "dodge test" is nothing more than a second, better damage resistance test'', so we needed some more deadlier solution.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
i101
post Jan 10 2009, 05:17 PM
Post #8


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 194
Joined: 30-August 07
Member No.: 12,989



I had to hurry to work.. @Telion: Your advice to keep full dodge sounds good. I could handle it this way, that Players who spend their next action, can use their dodge skill additional to their body plus leftover armor to resist an attack.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jhaiisiin
post Jan 10 2009, 08:55 PM
Post #9


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,416
Joined: 4-March 06
From: Albuquerque
Member No.: 8,334



You made the remark that wired characters can't be hit that easy, but by dropping dodge, everyone can be hit equally, just some will resist the damage better than others. *shrug* Best of luck in tuning it to what you need.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th December 2014 - 09:31 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.