zeN's Advanced Vehicle & Chase Rules, Still Beta, was asked to post by a member Options

[InfinityzeN]

*Edit: Damn quote and spoiler limits!*

Since they were asked for, here they are. They are really designed for cars and bikes, with all the play testing done with that type of vehicle. If you want to apply them to drones and aircraft, then I take no responsibility for any crazy results. They should actually work pretty well though.

First off there is no change to a vehicles stat line. We just add a few metrics and rules to cover max speed (as opposed to the Speed stat which covers the highest speed a vehicle can go without handling penalties), acceleration, braking, etc. Since my game is taking place in the CAS (and thous US instead of SI measurements), I settled on using 1 mile is 1600 meters. Yea I know, not quiet exact but it makes figuring speed in mph easier. Current speed times 0.75 for mph is far easier then times 0.74564543068480076354092102123598.

For anything with a multiple, round up to the nearest number divisible by 5.

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Derived from the speed stat. The fastest a vehicle can travel, unless otherwise noted in its description, is Speed x1.25. Acceleration past the Speed stat is halved and Thresholds for maneuvers are doubled.

Unlike the way the rules are written in the BBB, the Acceleration stat actually covers the vehicles acceleration. The walking rate is easy to achive rate, while the running rate is going flat out. By spending a complex action on accelerating you may add your hits * 5 to the rating, with a cap is a 50% increase. You may do this during any maneuver, however, doing so increases your threshold by 2 and only counts successes over the Threshold.

'No Action' = Max increase by Walking Acceleration
'Free Action' = Max increase by Running Acceleration
'Complex Action' = Running Acceleration + 5 per success over threshold. Threshold raised on anything but straight line.

A vehicles braking rate is the combined total of its walking and running Acceleration stats. With a maneuver action specifically on braking, you may add your hits * 10 to the combined rating, with a cap of a 100% increase. You may do this during any maneuver, however, doing so increases your threshold by 2 and only counts successes over the Threshold.

If it comes down to it, the walking rate is engine braking (using just the engine and gearing) and the running is the mechanical rate (using the actual brakes). If you can only use one instead of both, use that single stat. The +10 a hit and 100% can apply only to the single part of the stat.

'No Action' = Max decrease by Walking or Running Acceleration
'Free Action' = Max decrease by Walking + Running Acceleration
'Complex Action' = Walking + Running Acceleration + 5 per success over threshold. Threshold raised on anything but straight line.

A vehicles cornering ability is derived for its Handling stat. Any handling type maneuver with a threshold greater then 1 *and* the vehicles Handling stat has its threshold increased by how far short the Handling stat is.

If your vehicles Handling is +1 or less and you take a turn or quick maneuver with a threshold higher then 1, then your threshold will be higher because your vehicle doesn't handle that well. Vehicles with +2 or higher Handling can take more difficult turns without additional penalty.

IE: If your handling is +0 and you take a 2 threshold turn, your threshold in that car increases to 4. If the threshold of the turn were 4, your threshold in that car increases to 8. This is to prevent limos from handling like sports cars.

[InfinityzeN]

Now we have some raw numbers to work with and can calculate a vehicles performance. Yes 2070 vehicles perform pretty damn crazy. What did you think, vehicle tech didn't improve in 60 years?

This leads us into an important part of vehicles... chases! Car chases are a whole lot of fun, especially when people are shooting at each other in the middle of them. I have hated the yoyo and other weird effects of the SR4 rules since I first read them. I started hating them even more after playing them. So I have been working on some alternate rules.

First, a few basics to get out of the way.

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Firstly, to have a chase the vehicle attempting to flee must be able to be caught. If the fleeing vehicle has superior Accel and Speed or the ability to travel into terrain that the chasing vehicles can't (and that terrain is around), then without extenuating circumstances it will get away. No traffic to slow it down, no hoards of turns and twist, etc, then there will be no chase. Just the chase vehicle watching the fleeing vehicle leave it in it's dust.

If a chase is possible, then we need some way of tracking it that doesn't take a ton of book keeping. I use a single number for each vehicle. It is a running total of a vehicles hits and by comparing them to the hits of other vehicles you can find the distance apart they are. The GM will assign a starting CM for each vehicle at the beginning of any chase. Chasing vehicles CM can not raise above the fleeing vehicles CM.

Close Range = a difference of 2 hits or less. Short Range = a difference of 3 to 5 hits. Long Range = a difference of 6 to 8 hits. Break-Off Range = a difference of 9 or more hits. If the fleeing vehicle ends the Chase roll at Break-Off Range for 3 rounds, then it has escaped. You can not shot at vehicles in break-away range from you, since they are normally out of direct line-of-sight.

During a chase through traffic and twisty turns, the vehicle that can accelerate and brake faster will have an advantage. This is represented by a bonus die for every 10 point advantage.

If the fleeing vehicle is being chased by multiple cars and does not have the highest running Accel, the chase vehicle individually calculate their Acceleration Advantage dice. If the fleeing vehicle has the highest running Accel, calculate its Acceleration Advantage dice from the fastest chase vehicle.

Acceleration Advantage dice are only used on Chase Rolls.

[InfinityzeN]

So you got all that and are ready to run the actual chase huh? Well here are the rules for it.

[ Spoiler ]

The fleeing vehicle picks a maneuver difficulty that they will be trying this round, a number from 1 to 5. This is the base handling threshold for the round and the final rolled against threshold will be calculated using the Cornering rules.

A description of your maneuver should be given at the same time you give your number. Sudden braking, sharp turns, bootlegger, etc. Be creative and have fun!

The GM may if they desire add 1 or 2 to your chosen maneuver difficulty. This is to cover any crazy thing that happens or environmental hazard. A random car accidentally cutting into the chase, slick roads, the poor pedestrians who are on the crosswalk when you take that hard power-sliding turn, etc.

I rarely use this myself, but sometimes it adds excitement to throw a curve ball into the mix.

Now that the fleeing car has picked their maneuver, all the chasers must stat if they will be attempting to follow it fully or go with an easier maneuver. If they go with an easier maneuver, they must subtract 2 from their CM for every point less then the fleeing vehicles number.

Calculate the threshold for each car from its chosen difficulty and the Cornering rule. Any hits above the needed threshold add to that vehicles CM, while any shortfall is subtracted from its CM. A glitch indicates a miner accident in addition to the CM penalty. A critical glitch is as nasty as the GM wants to be.

You'll notice that a higher CM does not necessarily mean you are in front of a vehicle. If Sam (CM: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) , who is being chased by Joe (CM: 5), slams on his brakes and turns into an alley (rolls +3 hits above, CM now 11) while Joe messes up his roll (misses it by 4, resulting in a CM of 1) and turns down the next street, they are at Break-Away range with Joe actually further along. Joe has to close the gap in the next two rounds or he will lose Sam.

There, that wasn't so bad was it? As I said earlier, I'm still testing and tweaking these so any actual play use feedback would be greatly appreciated. If your just going to say this is stupid without adding useful comments of why it is stupid and ways to improve it, then I'll just ignore you.

Cheers and I hope this is what you were looking for Ornot.

[InfinityzeN]

PS: While your here, these are my updated rules for converting vehicles of today into their updated 2070 version, as well as how to get a stat line on a classic vehicle and factory installed options.

[ Spoiler ]

So you want to update a car to its 2070 version do you? Well here you go, the quick rundown on how to calculate each block of it's stat bar.

Pretty much a “Use Examples from the BBB�. Bikes for example, a small bike or off-road bike will have +1, while a crotch rocket or chopper will have +2. Cars, a sports car will be around +3, very sporty cars will be around +2, a sporty car will be +1, normal cars will be +0 and a bigger or heavier +0 or less. This can be bumped up or down by one depending on if that vehicle is known to be a good or bad handling vehicle. Limit is +3/-3 for production vehicles, more than that requires after market work.

Walking rate is pretty straight forward. 5 = slow, 10 = average, 15 = sporty, 20 = sport car/bike. Bump it up or down by 5 if the vehicle is exceptionally quick or slow accelerating.

Running rate however, is where the math first starts. Divide 242 by the time it takes the vehicle to reach 60mph. The result is the vehicles running Accel + the test drivers average roll. Knock 10 to 15 off of it, ending on a number divisible by 5.

The website www.0-60times.com is a good place to go to find a vehicles 0-60mph time.

Quick and dirty, just take the vehicles top speed x 1.07 and round to the nearest number divisible by 5. Finish off by adding between 5 and 20 to represent improvements made since 2009.

This is based on the vehicles 2070 price. Use 1 (price 10k or less), 2 (price over 10 k to 25k), or 3 (price over 25k) for ground vehicles. Tweak this up or down by 1 if desired. Vehicles such as a Rolls Royce would get +1 for example.

Body is pretty much determined by a vehicles size. It is not the metric of a vehicles 'toughness'. For bikes, 4 for scooter, 6 for rocket, 8 for chopper. For cars, 8 for subcompact, 9 for compact, 10 for midsize car, 11 for full size car/small SUV, 12 for really big cars/midsize SUV, 13 for large SUVs. For trucks, 14 for truck, 16 for van, 18 for tractor, 20 for bus. Bump it up or down by 1 for slight variations in vehicle size.

Armor is actually more often a metric of how tough a vehicle is rather then being actual armor. Bikes are normally 4, cars are normally 6, heavier vehicles are normally 8. Bump it up or down from there as you see fit. A jeep wrangler for example would be Body 9, but most like have armor 8. Armor should not go above 10 unless the vehicle actually is armored.

A 1 by default. Military/security vehicles can go up to a 3.

Roughly equal to ($ * 0.8 ) for the first 100k, ($ * 0.6 ) for the next 100k, and ($ * 0.5 ) for everything above 200k in Nuyen. Round to whole 100's or 1000's to make the number easier to work with.

Classic Car Modifiers. And before anyone ask why you would want a 60+ year old car, I actually own a 1947 Ford Super-deluxe.

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Handling gets a -1. (No Drive-by-Wire)

Accel loses an additional 5 from running rate.
(Option: Multiple the vehicles quarter mile speed by 4 and divide by the quarter mile time. Average the result with [242 divided by 0-60mph time] then knock 10 to 15 off of it, ending on a number divisible by 5.)

Pilot and Sensor are 0.

Armor can be knocked down 1~2 to represent that newer vehicles are built using improved materials and construction techniques.

Price is whatever the GM wants it to be. Hey, we are talking about really old cars here.

Factory Installed Options (aka: Trim Levels)

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By RAW, all vehicles of the same model are identical before after market modification. This is understandable from a writers perspective, since writing out every available trim level would take a large chunk of space. I have not ever seen any RPG that did this, instead always picking only one (normally base) trim level.

However, there are a few Mods that would make sense to be factory options on a vehicle. Here is a quick run down of what I thick fits this category, along with the % of the price. Factory installed options do not take up any vehicle mod slots. I listed a few, though it is ultimately up to the GM what is available for any given model vehicle.

Amenities: 1 level higher then base for most vehicles, 2 levels higher then base for 'Luxury' vehicles. Full price.

Skinlink (note: this is not 'Full Skinlink') is available for $50.

Passenger protection: +1 for $1000. This represents upgraded airbags and such.

Turbocharger: +1 at full list price. I would only allow this for vehicles that would have a higher performance Trim level.

If you want, you can include Dealer Installed Options as well. These will come on the vehicle off the lot, cost the full amount, and take up Mod slots. GridLink and SunCell both perfectly fall into this category, along with Anti-Theft, Rigger Adaptation, and any of the tires.

[Cain]

Reminds me of my Chase Combat thread I started some time ago.

Basically, I'd like to ask how you deal with the "Picard Maneuver" problem, plus the fact that speed/acceleration does not matter.

The example, admittedly extreme but actually happened, was when the bikers were chasing us. They were on ordinary choppers, we were in a sportscar. If they were on racing bikes, their top speed would be 200, while our top speed was 300. I then called in a Force 10 spirit, and had it use the Movement power on us. 3000m/turn = 3600 kph, or Mach 4.6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

Now, the GM quite properly handwaved the escape. However, according to RAW, that would not matter in the slightest. The bikers would get individual rolls against us, and if we did not succeed, they'd remain in close range. Even if we won, it'd take four minutes at minimum to Break Off, during which time we'd have traveled over a hundred miles.

Now, can your vehicle combat rules deal with those issues? I haven't examined them in depth, but I don't see anything addressing either of these problems, or any of the others I listed in the previous thread.

[InfinityzeN]

You didn't read the 'The rule of superior performance'. It stats that if the fleeing vehicle is faster (higher speed and accel) with nothing that would keep it from using its higher performance (ie: lots of traffic, really really really bad twisty road, etc), then its escape is hand-waved.

Also, since we can take higher speed out for their to be a chase (if you couldn't, see 'The rule of superior performance') and Accel provides the vehicle that accelerates faster with bonus dice on their chase roll a'la the 'Acceleration Advantage' rule. I did it this way since in a chase through traffic, turning down alleys and such, you will rarely if ever hit your top speed and if you do it is only for a second or two. 'Acceleration Advantage' gives the vehicle that can accelerate and brake (since braking is determined by Accel) faster an advantage.

From personal experience road racing, as well as the ability to read the records of specific tracks, I can tell you that in a chase through twists and turns, acceleration, braking, and cornering are far more important then top speed. How else would a car like the Cobalt SS (top speed ~148mph) get faster times around the Nurburgring the several very fast cars (including a coupe of Porsches, Skylines, Evos, etc.).

[Cain]

The problem is, how much of a speed differential is required for the escape to be handwaved? I think we'd agree that a mere 5m/turn advantage wouldn't be enough, but what about 50? What happens if the vehicle has a higher top speed, but lower acceleration? Exactly where do we draw the line? What range should we stop rolling at start handwaving?

Also, I noticed that you slowed down the "Picaed Maneuver", but didn't stop it. Was that intentional?

And what happens if you've got more than 2 people in the chase?

[InfinityzeN]

We've actually played it through with more then one vehicle chasing the fleeing vehicle. Actually a good chunk of the play testing was done that way. Their all keeping track of the CM and by comparing their totals to anyone else it will tell you how far away they are.

As for the really high Accel against a vehicle with a higher top speed, you could play it out in high detail rounds for a couple rounds to see if the slower top speed vehicle can cut off and stop the other one. But that goes back to tracking exact meters per turn, meters of separation or traveled from a starting point, etc. If the lower top speed/higher accel vehicle can get up to the other one (the fleeing vehicle might have a starting speed advantage such as blowing past the cop chasing him at double the speed limit), you'll end up with a couple of rounds of the chase vehicle trying to maneuver past or pit maneuver the fleeing vehicle. The fleeing vehicle will spend those rounds trying to keep the chase vehicle as close to directly behind him as possible until he reaches a high enough speed that the chaser can't catch him. Ultimately though, it is the GMs call if he wants to hand wave it or not.

As for the Picaed Maneuver, it actually doesn't happen that way in play. If you have a say 100m lead on a car (Short Range vehicle wise, so CM 3~5 higher), it is perfectly possible during a hard turning or evasion maneuver which you totally narf up that the chase vehicle will get right up on your ass into close range. Happens all the time IRL.

[Cain]

I think I was unclear. At what speed differential do we simply handwave the escape, if that's what we're trying for? What if the escaping car has a dramatically higher top speed, but a lower acceleration? As you pointed out, the advantage usually goes to the vehicle with the better acceleration; so should we still handwave the escape? Also, what happens if we've got unbalanced vehicle types, such as a helicopter chasing a car?

The Picard maneuver is basically a teleport from extreme range to short range. Let's say we have two vehicles that are mismatched in performance, say a Dodge Scoot vs. a Eurocar Westwind. By RAW, their speed differences don't matter; if the Rigger on the Scoot can out-roll the Westwind's driver, he can keep in close range. Using your rules, let's say that by virtue of the Westwind's superior speed, it manages to move to Break-Off range.

In both RAW and your rules, if the Scoot manages to roll well enough, he can close the distance instantly from extreme range to within 5 meters. That's the Picard Maneuver. This will occur regardless of the speed and acceleration differential between the vehicles.

The same thing applies in reverse. If you're trying to keep up with a vehicle, to Cut it Off, it can instantly jump from close range to Break Off range, if it gets a good enough roll. This would apply even if we have a helicopter chasing a car.

Multiple people in the chase complicates matters further, but I'll just make one point for now. Since the winner sets the distance, a group of bikers chasing a car has the edge, even if the car has a superior driver. The bikers have more variability in their rolls, so they're more likely to get lucky and beat the sports car. By RAW, the winner gets to set the range, so the bikes stay in close range, even if every other biker botched. If I read your rules correctly, you advocate setting separate distances for each ganger? That sounds like a logistical headache, especially if there's a lot of go-gangers.

[Kev]

InfinityZen:

I really like these rules! I usually shy away from vehicle combat, but if it comes up, I'll definitely try out something like this (as opposed to the RAW chase combat rules, which... blech).

There are two things that I note lacking in your rules mockup. First, terrain (difficult, close, open, etc); not sure how this would come into play since the players are choosing their own thresholds, but it does seem like something missing. Second, crash tests; this system seems to assume that the driver will always be able to handle his car perfectly and make their manuever. It doesn't seem realistic. If I drive a GMC Bulldog and attempt to 90 degree turn the thing down an alleyway at 90 MPH (a threshold 5, let's say, upped to 10 due to the handling difference) well, I won't make that roll. The only penalty, however, will be my opponent closing distance on me. Shouldn't the van have to make a crash test to pull out of the turn before hitting the wall?

[InfinityzeN]

First off I would like to say thank you for the feedback and hope you enjoy the rules.

Before I get into answering your questions, I would like to point out that my chase rules still use the 1 minute long chase rounds. So the difficulty the fleeing party picks comes down to a mix of things instead of just one single manuver with them braking and accelerating hard the whole time. Example: "I'm going to swerve back and forth through traffic, cutting people off and tapping my brakes to try to make them swerve around, watching until I find an alley across traffic that I will attempt to turn into with a really hard powerside... Pick 5" You as the GM can always tell the player their picked number doesn't match their discription, but the discription is more for the flavor and enjoyment of the group in imagining the big wild chase.

There are two things that I note lacking in your rules mockup. First, terrain (difficult, close, open, etc); not sure how this would come into play since the players are choosing their own thresholds, but it does seem like something missing.

The terrain difficulty comes in from the GM adding something with the "Even More Poison" bit. I'll repeat the text...

The GM may if they desire add 1 or 2 to your chosen maneuver difficulty. This is to cover any crazy thing that happens or environmental hazard. A random car accidentally cutting into the chase, slick roads, the poor pedestrians who are on the crosswalk when you take that hard power-sliding turn, etc.

I rarely use this myself, but sometimes it adds excitement to throw a curve ball into the mix.

Adding 2 to the difficutly is pretty nasty when combined with the handling rules. That will almost allways raise the threshold by 4.

Second, crash tests; this system seems to assume that the driver will always be able to handle his car perfectly and make their manuever. It doesn't seem realistic. If I drive a GMC Bulldog and attempt to 90 degree turn the thing down an alleyway at 90 MPH (a threshold 5, let's say, upped to 10 due to the handling difference) well, I won't make that roll. The only penalty, however, will be my opponent closing distance on me. Shouldn't the van have to make a crash test to pull out of the turn before hitting the wall?

As for crash test, it is assumed that if you fail to reach the threshold but did not glitch or critical glitch, then you managed to brake/swerve in time to avoid a nasty crash. Lots of discriptions involving sideswiping other vehicles, grinding along walls, plowing through hotdog stands, etc. Stuff that adds color and surface damage, but not actual mechanical damage. Maybe hit a pedestrain or two (Hell, hit some even on a fully successful roll!).

On a glitch, make a crash roll. On a critical glitch... well you crashed. Sorry, I just noticed that I actually didn't put all that information into the original release. This is how I play it.

Also, if you want to go highly detailed you can not use the chase rules (which use the 1 minute chase rounds the same as the BBB) and instead use high detailed rules tracking the actual current speed and position of each vehicle on a round by round basis (since I gave rules for exact acceleration, braking, and handling capabilities of vehicles).

[InfinityzeN]

Updated and tweaked.