I took explosive rounds out of my game Options

[ornot]

I think one of the problems evident here is us trying to understand how, based on a vague description and fairly arbitrary stats, an imaginary bullet works. One can either suspend disbelief, and accept that it's a round available in SR, or decide that it's silly and disallow it.

It doesn't seem that long ago when our many firearms enthusiasts were raising hell about the AP mod given to heavy pistols, yet not given to SMGs which effectively have the same ammo. Also, apparently, APDS ammo doesn't technically work in pistol calibers, and armour piercers sold for pistols use an entirely different technology, and after all, the cycle rate is unrealistically slow. I don't pretend to know anything about this, seeing as I'm not overly familiar with guns, but it seems you could just use a houserule about which types of ammunition are available to which weapon, and be done with it; rather than trying to reverse engineer how an imaginary ordinance (sp? I always get this one muddled with the legal term) actually works.

[eidolon]

I don't think we need yet another thread about how firearms in Shadowrun don't work quite like how they do IRL.

New philosophy exercise: What would Dumpshock be like without firearms wankery threads?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Larme]

I'm not gonna tell you, I'll show you with rich, verbal imagery:

[ Spoiler ]

A tumbleweed blows past on the empty street.

[AllTheNothing]

New philosophy exercise: What would Dumpshock be like without firearms wankery threads?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

It would be like ShadowRun without guns ..... Boring!!!
Seriously, guns and ammo are just excuses, the beauty lies in the tiny bits that sorround them.

[InfinityzeN]

Guns don't kill people...

Burst of rocket assisted with vectored thrust maneuvering, bio-pattern tracking, top down attacking, Orichalcum coated, magic resistant, high explosive (Anti-Matter assisted) Anti-Dragon rounds do.

[Fix-it]

New philosophy exercise: What would Dumpshock be like without firearms wankery threads?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

y'know. I wouldnt mind a few more drone or vehicle wankery threads...

[ornot]

There are perhaps less petrol heads than gun nuts, and drones don't exist at present, so we can't have any specialists in them.

I agree though, it would be educational to hear real world specialists' critique of the model we use in SR. Instead we get lots of magic wankery threads.

[Larme]

Wait, seriously? Drones don't exist? What about battlebots? And predator drones? I guess those are just figments of my imagination? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[ornot]

Granted...

Although the drones in SR are a little more technical than in Robot Wars, and I'm not sure how transferable current tech would be.

As for military drones, there can't be many people that work on them... I look forward to being enlightened.

[InfinityzeN]

The predator is a nasty piece of work. Actually, in SR4 terms, it would be a drone that you can issue Commands too or fly by remote control. So you can tell it "Go Here @ this height" and it will fly to that grid and circle it. Or tell it to "Fly this course" for example. You can also grab the stick and fly it like a video game. Of course, it has to be remote controlled instead of command controlled to fire a missile.

Also, EOD has their bomb disposal robot which is pretty much a Drone.

So yes, Drones do exist right now and yes there are armed Drones out there.

[Ed_209a]

The predator is a nasty piece of work.

Also look at the newer MQ-9 Reaper.

4 laser guided antitank missiles and 2 laser guided bombs? GPS bombs and air-to-air missiles soon? Yowch!

[InfinityzeN]

Yea, but the Reaper is a Hel'la lot bigger then the Predator. A Preadator would be a Large drone. A Reaper is a Car (well not really, but it is as big as a car with its wings folded up).

[Hartbaine]

This is the reason when experts decide to explain to me how guns and bullets really work, I switch everything over to EX-APDS-Gel-Flechettes. People at the table are so damned confused they can't center themselves long enough to bring RL expertise into it.

Frankly I don't care about the science behind guns and ammo... I shot my bow last week and found that no matter how many 5's & 6's I rolled on a pool of 8 dice, it didn't help me hit the target any better. This simply proves to me that there is, in fact, to correlation between RPGs and RL, so I keep em' separate.

[kzt]

This simply proves to me that there is, in fact, to correlation between RPGs and RL, so I keep em' separate.

I think it's been proven to be three correlation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Wounded Ronin]

I think one of the problems evident here is us trying to understand how, based on a vague description and fairly arbitrary stats, an imaginary bullet works. One can either suspend disbelief, and accept that it's a round available in SR, or decide that it's silly and disallow it.

It doesn't seem that long ago when our many firearms enthusiasts were raising hell about the AP mod given to heavy pistols, yet not given to SMGs which effectively have the same ammo. Also, apparently, APDS ammo doesn't technically work in pistol calibers, and armour piercers sold for pistols use an entirely different technology, and after all, the cycle rate is unrealistically slow. I don't pretend to know anything about this, seeing as I'm not overly familiar with guns, but it seems you could just use a houserule about which types of ammunition are available to which weapon, and be done with it; rather than trying to reverse engineer how an imaginary ordinance (sp? I always get this one muddled with the legal term) actually works.

Well, the true way of the jedi would have been for Mike Mulvhill et al. to spend years pouring over medical studies of firearms trauma and wounding and ballistics data and have then implemented real ammunition types super simulationistically.

Think about how hilarious and cool it is to shoot someone with a flexible baton round from your shotgun and have it have all kind of physioloigcal effects based on distance and hit location versus how boring it is to plink someone with a "gel round" and then nonchalantly fill in a few stun boxes and be all done with it.

Har har: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVvrca_P7FI...feature=related

LOL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLdNICAydI

LAWL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCD3PkIENuE...feature=related

[InfinityzeN]

"Nerf" rounds are the shiz'nit. We use it in our M203 grenade launchers.

[Thadeus Bearpaw]

Explosive rounds are not minigrenades. They don't go Boom when you shoot things. According to the old fluff, it was more an impressive fragmentation when they hit. There's no reason why they can't be silenced, since they don't make a Boom when they hit.

I know people on DS can be hostile to RL from time to time, but between seeing explosive bullets on youtube and RL, they make a slight boom and more important a flash when they impact something, particularly something wherein the energy of the bullet is distributed on the surface (body armor for example). I'm not saying anything other than an anecdotal reference, but EX ammo, I'd imagine makes at least a little more noise than other things. As others have said, that besides, using F rating stuff, particularly if you're capping cops, mili, or doing enough damage to infrastructure of corp operations to make other corps cringe, you should have the apporpriate group come down on your head. Basically since most Shadowrunners are indy ops, they ought to have some kind of blowback.

[Larme]

Oh yeah, noise. There's nothing about it in the rules, but my former GM always ruled that explosive rounds basically negate a silencer -- there's no sound from the barrel, but there is a sound when the bullet explodes. It's probably less of a sound, but it's not much in terms of a silent death strategy.