Alcohol - as a drug - why are there no stats?, Would these ones work for you? Options

[Iota]

Hi all!

If this topic had been up, I apologize, but my search did not show anything...

Ok, as all the other drugs like Jazz, Nitro, Cram and so on have there own stats (boni, duration, side effects) I thought it would be nice to have something similar for alcohol.

I came up with the following:

Alcohol:
Duration: x-Body hours (still thinking about this, should depend on how frequently alcohol is used...)
Effects: +1 Body +1 Willpower, -1 Reaction, -1 Logic, -1 Intuition, High Pain Tolerance 2
Description: Well, I guess we all know what being under the influence of alcohol feels like (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Side effect: 1 Stun damage (not resisted) for every hour of duration

Does this sound reasonable?

[raggedhalo]

I'd make the Willpower change into a reduction (due to the lack of inhibition), and reduce Reaction and Agility too. I'm not even really clear why it would enhance your Body.

You might also consider Disorientation and Nausea...

[Dragnar]

I get the plus to Willpower, I get the high pain tolerance, but I agree that a plus to Body doesn't make much sense. Just because you feel invincible, doesn't mean you are any closer to that than before. In fact, most drunks are easier to knock out than sober folk, to say nothing of the crappy endurance you have a few shots in.

[Cang]

Well jazz and nitro have stats because they are "super drugs". I mean you won't find prozac with stats in anygame other then what it does roleplay wise, but if you take hardcore steroids or PCP there is a huge change to the body. Regular pot and coke don't get stats either. Only the magical stuff or the super enhanced stuff gets a bump. If i were to give stats, i would give the pain tolerance of 1 and a lot of negatives.

[Chrysalis]

My reaction is that it should be -1 to intuition, -1 reaction and pain resistance 1 (assuming you are drinking to be over the limit). This would then match why you should not be drinking and driving.

You just think you are smarter, sexier, stronger, and more intelligent when under the influence.

[Fuchs]

"stats" for alcohol in our game usually only come up when excessively drinking, and are handled by "make a body test", with the results ranging from "You wake up the next day, and have no idea what happened past midnight" to "you stay conscious but have -X to all tests".

[simplexio]

-1 willpower, -1 reaction, anyone giving dump idea get +2 to sosial test and lucky quality while totally wasted and trying to protect bottle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[BleysBarrett]

Penalties to Agility and Reaction first, and largest. Penalties to Logic and Charisma as things progress. Also, I'd reduce skill ratings when attempting to execute complex actions initially, then even relatively simple actions.

One of the issues to consider is WHEN to apply any penalties. There should be several stages, ranging from "buzzed" to "bombed." Something like:
-1 Reaction, -1 Agility
-2 Reaction, -2 Agility, -1 Logic
-3 Reaction, -2 Agility, -1 Logic, -1 Charisma (when speech is starting to slur noticeably)
-3 Reaction, -3 Agility, -2 Logic, -2 Charisma (stumbling drunk)

The skill ratings penalties start with anything balance-related or very precise like Electronics. By stage 3, driving is impaired, in large part due to the reaction and agility decrease, but also due to the inability to assess the complex, dynamic traffic flow. So, anything similar (tailing someone in a crowd, for example) would be affected. Also, judgment is impacted negatively, so skills applications requiring judgment should be impacted. By stage 4, EVERYTHING is impacted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Try opening a wine bottle with a corkscrew when stumbling-drunk, without dropping the bottle. Normally, this isn't a test at all...but when you're that drunk, it should be. Well, if something THAT simple now has a chance to be failed, anything that would normally require a test (when sober) could be said to simply automatically fail.

Body tests would say when you move from one penalty level to the next. The number of successes needed would increase as you continue to drink. But, I'd also handle a lot of this by roleplaying it; as GM, just ask the player how hard he's intending the character to drink, and gauge (and describe) from there.

[Rasumichin]

The problem is that a lot of the effects of alcohol are largely dependant on the quantity one consumes.

For example, after a night of binge drinking, CHA is going to drop, of course.
Just after the second beer, however, people may become outgoing, talkative and self-confident enough to justify a +1 bonus to Charisma.
At least, that's the explanation they give for why stuff like eX provides a CHA bonus and that's just glorified MDMA.

However, the drug rules for SR4 aren't that finely grained to emulate changing effects of intoxication over time (let alone influences such as baseline mood of the user, setting and so on), so one might want to come up with a more global represantation of the effects.

[Pyritefoolsgold]

Penalties to Agility and Reaction first, and largest. Penalties to Logic and Charisma as things progress. Also, I'd reduce skill ratings when attempting to execute complex actions initially, then even relatively simple actions.

One of the issues to consider is WHEN to apply any penalties. There should be several stages, ranging from "buzzed" to "bombed." Something like:
-1 Reaction, -1 Agility
-2 Reaction, -2 Agility, -1 Logic
-3 Reaction, -2 Agility, -1 Logic, -1 Charisma (when speech is starting to slur noticeably)
-3 Reaction, -3 Agility, -2 Logic, -2 Charisma (stumbling drunk)

That seems about right, though I'd also add intuition penalties equal to logic, and most controversially, might add +1 charisma for the first stage, to represent how the lessening of inhibitions acts as a bit of a "social lubricant" before the actual impairment becomes obvious. And to line it up with other drugs that give you some kind of benefit.
Of course, if this leads your face and shaman to spiral into alchoholism, I refuse to be held responsible.

[BleysBarrett]

Pyrite, the fact that Charisma is a controlling magical stat, is why I would never give a bonus to it. Give +1 to particular social skills, perhaps...but also, on the logic you're suggesting, -1 when the other person is trying to get information from you...whether you realize it or not. You may not blurt out the damaging information, but it's a lot more likely that you'll say something that leads him to it.

[Iota]

Hey all!

Ok, I guess all those who said there should not be to much boni are somehow right, nevertheless I would stick to give pain tolerance on a low level (1-2) when under the influence of alcohol, because it`s just what it is: you walk in the corner of a table getting an ugly bruise without even noticing it. This bonus while resisting damage was what I wanted to express by the +1 Body/Will though I have to admit now that it would be to much.

I also like the idea to give boni to some of the social skills if the person is not already in a state of language loss. Intimidate comes to my mind because people who are drunk are unpredictable and unpredictable people are scary.

[Zen Shooter01]

If one dose is one shot, beer, or glass, than one dose has little effect on most people.

I've house ruled the stats as Damage: 2S, Disorientation.

[Rasumichin]

Pyrite, the fact that Charisma is a controlling magical stat, is why I would never give a bonus to it.

Why not?
There's already several drugs in the game that give a bonus to it, as well as there are substances that provide a bonus to Intuiton, Logic and sustaining spells or increase willpower.

You will find drugs providing a minor bonus for any character type and most of them are easily available, in many cases even legally and for a reasonable price.

[Hocus Pocus]

as i am currently drinking right now sounds perfectly reasonable

[FriendoftheDork]

I was wondering about this one myself. My character has moderate addiction: alcohol, and i notice except for some fluff it is pretty much ignored and the gm never gives my characters any penalties.

I'm thinking reduced reaction is a must, pain tolerance 1 is interesting (they DID use liquor as a sedative in 19th century medicine). Work at any place crowded with drunk people and you will realize that +1 charisma in NOT very accurate, although a drink or two could help interaction somewhat.

I'm not sure how to make a system without making it overly simplistic or overly complicated.

[Rad]

It all depends on what level we define a normal "dose" as. The other drugs have rules for a standard "dose", and some have guidelines for when you exceed that (ie: Long Haul).

Remember that Hurlg is just 160+ proof alcohol with some nutmeg thrown in, (by contrast, rum averages about half that) and it's effects are -1 Logic, +1 Willpower, and disorientation in humans and elves. I'd say come up with a baseline dose, and scale the duration and the stun damage down according to the proof of the alchohol. (Proof = 2x the percentage.)

I'd probably use the toxin rules to see if it causes disorientation. Give it a certain power, and say that if the modified (that is, reduced by your toxin resistance roll) power exceeds your body, you get disorientation. This would factor in the the extra points of body that orks and trolls have, and the extra body & extra toxin resistance dice that dwarfs get, which add up to roughly the same amount. (+4 body for orks, +2 body, +2 toxin resistance for dwarfs, & +5 body for trolls)

It sounds about right to me. The -2 from disorientation covers the loss of motor function, while the +1 to Willpower represents being more stubborn, and having your sense of fear and pain dulled. Might want to add a line about overdoses causing nausea, though. XP

[Sir_Psycho]

I treat it as stun damage with a DV equivalent to the amount of drinks you've had. It covers the progressive loss of function, and being resisted by Body represents Orks and Trolls high tolerance to alcohol, as well as their ability to sober up quicker. A hangover is represented by having so much stun damage and getting so little sleep that you still have stun damage. If you don't, then just roleplay a simple headache, and maybe throw in a mild light allergy. Simple, elegant, and no silly bonuses.

[Wounded Ronin]

There should just be stats for large doses of alcohol.

[Red-ROM]

I wanted to bring this post back to the fropage to get more input. considering alchohol is listed under the addiction quality, and that at least half the characters I've seen are addicted to it. Plus I'm working on an Idea for a drunkin Master (that is drunk, like in the movies)

[MJBurrage]

One of the issues to consider is WHEN to apply any penalties. There should be several stages, ranging from "buzzed" to "bombed." Something like:
-1 Reaction, -1 Agility
-2 Reaction, -2 Agility, -1 Logic
-3 Reaction, -2 Agility, -1 Logic, -1 Charisma (when speech is starting to slur noticeably)
-3 Reaction, -3 Agility, -2 Logic, -2 Charisma (stumbling drunk)

I like the idea of stages, but would alter the effects a bit:

• 0.01-0.09: 2 stun, –1 Reaction, –0 Agility, +1 Charisma (there is a reason for drinking at social gatherings)
• 0.10-0.19: 4 stun, –2 Reaction, –1 Agility, –0 Charisma, –1 Logic
• 0.20-0.29: 6 stun, –3 Reaction, –2 Agility, –1 Charisma, –2 Logic (when speech is starting to slur noticeably)
• 0.30-0.39: 8 stun, –4 Reaction, –3 Agility, –2 Charisma, –3 Logic (stumbling drunk)

[Heath Robinson]

Let's just make it simple. A UK pint of beer (2 UK units) acts like a Power 2, Speed 30 Minutes toxin with Stun Damage. Everything with about as much alcohol operates the same. GM adjudicates the power increase from quantity, but I'd suggest increasing the power by 1 for every 2 additional UK units. Roll the Toxin Resistance Test for a few hours of drinking all at once instead of nickle'n'diming it.

The Resistance Test handles the effects perfectly fine. Let's not reinvent the wheel.


People drink because it lowers social DPs (making people open to things) and puts people off guard because drinking is done in a relaxed environment. It's available in pleasant environments and takes a while to drink, giving lots of time to discuss things.

[Screaming Eagle]

Well I thought I'd toss in a thought: Intoxicate, the spell, inflicts Fatigue causing Stun damage. I'd just remove the fatige aspect - stun damage. With a 30 minute onset time toxin, causing stun damage with Power = Drinks Consumed (drink as defined by one beer, glass of wine, 1 oz shot), re-test for fatige damage each 4 hours, redusing power by 1 per hour.
Effects of these rules I just made up: you can drink yourself to death if you try, can do real damage to yourself if you try, can socially drink close to indefinitly at a drink an hour (a fair bit more if your body is Troll-like).
Any bonuses I would tend to leave as an exersice for the GM, I (as a drinker, party host and oft DD over the years) would be inclined to disallow any bonuses outside of 1-4 ranks of high pain threashold (say current power - body= pain threashold ranks, max 4?).
The above is very loosely based on actual alcohol matabolising rates. Looking at it I'm sure I've got the damage too high or the interval between test to low though. Needs a shake down. But I'm going to bed now.

[Chibu]

Actually, i think you should definitely get a plus to body, or something anyway. Drunk drivers who crash kill other people, rarely themselves. I've heard plenty of stories of people being drunk and accidentally doing things that should really hurt them, but not getting hurt. For instance, drunk guys out hunting (yeah, i know. It seems like an awful plan to me too lol) one of them accidentally fell off a 20-30 foot cliff in the woods. Most people would get a little bit hurt from that. He was fine.

When you think about all of the crap that drunk people do and don't get hurt from, it just seems like they should get higher body or luck or whatever.

[Wounded Ronin]

The problem with alcohol is that if you really want to get into it you have to get into advanced alcoholism, including grand mal seizures and hallucinations and such.

If you just want to be able to have alcohol consumption be pretty simple, you should just say that if your character is an alcoholic that makes him more badass and gives statistical buffs to anything hypermasculine which they might do. Like Chuck Norris in Lone Wolf McQuade always knocking back Pearl Beer.