Explosive rounds + full auto, Do all the rounds get the bonus to DV? Options

[vollmond]

One of my players (I'm about to GM for the first time) has asked if a full burst of ex-ex ammo gets the DV bonus per-bullet or per-burst. The book (SR4, pg 143-144) seems ambiguous - what has the general DS consensus been? For effects realism, I'm inclined to say yes (Realistically, why wouldn't they all get it?). Game balance-wise, I'm inclined to say no, as his SMG will be ungodly powerful (~40P base damage).

[Zen Shooter01]

According to SR4, pg. 312, EX Explosive "adds 2 to the weapon's DV, and has an AP of -2." That was errattaed down to +1 DV -1 AP, but the point is it adds to the weapon's DV, not the bullet's. Bullets don't actually have DVs.

As you've noticed, adding that modifier to each round would turn a submachine gun into the Bellowing Fire Hose Of Fatal Hell.

[vollmond]

Aha, thank you for pointing out that distinction. All makes sense now.

haha I like the name, though...

[MeagerEvil]

As you've noticed, adding that modifier to each round would turn a submachine gun into the Bellowing Fire Hose Of Fatal Hell.

But isn't that what a SMG full of exploding rounds is? I agree that the rules in the book are that it add to the total, not each bullet.

My group and I chose to throw out the burst fire and full auto mechanics, we felt that it wasn't a very realistic system, we switched it to a system where one additional bullet strikes for every 2 successes beyond the first, It is allows for a more detailed approach as you are not lumping in all the bullets as causing a flat damage. This makes the game more deadly but it also adds a further complexity to the combat mechanics, which my group enjoys.
The more we play 4th ed. the more I miss 3rd.

--Thought for the Day: The Emperor Protects those who protect themselves.--

[Malachi]

The more we play 4th ed. the more I miss 3rd.

Because the mechanics for autofire were identical in SR3?

[InfinityzeN]

Pretty much most likely...

I always was a fan of CP2020's weapon rules. A lot of the rest of the system was clunky (skillz for realz) but they got the combat stuff down pretty damn good.

[Dragnar]

How'd they handle automatics?
I'm still in search of a roughly plausible system that doesn't double the amount of time each automatic burst takes to resolve.

And I agree, if you want to take a quick "SR3 was better!" stab, do so in a situation where the mechanic you're critizising wasn't the same in both versions...

[Stahlseele]

in SR3, as far as i remember, it was clearly stated that, NO, burst and full auto does not gain the more power for every bullet fired . . exex and the such was added once, beginning of spray of bullets, then the usual fastfire mechanics with +1 power per bullet were added in . .

[InfinityzeN]

How'd they handle automatics?
I'm still in search of a roughly plausible system that doesn't double the amount of time each automatic burst takes to resolve.

And I agree, if you want to take a quick "SR3 was better!" stab, do so in a situation where the mechanic you're critizising wasn't the same in both versions...

A 3-RB would hit with 1d3 rounds, full auto would hit with one additional round per success over the minimum needed. But you would have to look over the rest of the rules since they were far bloodier and more lethal then SR. Things like individual location armor, head-shots being lethal, etc. I still remember seeing a cybered up Muay Thai fighter someone in the head and inflict 4d6+30 damage. This in a game where 10mm pistols do 2d6+3 and most assault rifles are in the 5d6 (5.56mm) to 6d6+3 (7.62mm). Oh, and ~20 points of damage after armor (normally ran 0~20) and body reduction (0~5) would kill you.

[Dragnar]

And to think of people thinking SR is a lethal system...
Did they model recoil compensation (which is big in SR)?

[MeagerEvil]

Because the mechanics for autofire were identical in SR3?

No, I was speaking in general of the 4th ed world, not the burst fire mechanics. The burst fire mechanics we used are a blend of Deadlands and Dark Heresy, my group's 2 other favorites, I actually think that they improved the mechanics for the most part (although it is less deadly in general.) But I miss the little things, like the difference between mages and shamans, sure it wasn't really balanced and didn't make sense given how tradition based the game was, but it was classic shadowrun.


---Thought for the Day: Thought Begets Heresy.---

[InfinityzeN]

And to think of people thinking SR is a lethal system...
Did they model recoil compensation (which is big in SR)?

Yes they did. Along with having *VERY* extensive weapons modification rules, *HUGE* amounts of ammo types (everything we have today, plus all the stuff you can think of that higher tech would allow), more guns then you can shake a stick at (just the base book had more guns then all the SR4 books combined), and very accurate damage numbers for all types and sizes of ammunition.

Not getting shot is very important in CP2020 if you want to live past your first game session. Unless your a full conversion Borg, sporting ACPA (Advanced Combat Power Armor IIRC), or top of the line Metalgear body armor. Even with those, there are plenty of can openers that will mess your world up.

Oh, and the martial artist I was talking about... well he had two cyber legs with thickened myomers (thats x2 strength over standard cyber legs), a 10 (max skill) in his martial arts which adds its rating to damage, a very high body (there is no seperate strength per say), and hit the target in the head (which doubles all damage after armor, cept the target wasn't wearing head armor).

[Dragnar]

Looks like I need to get hold of a copy of CP2020. It seems to positively ooze with ideas...
Thanks, InfinityzeN.

[Mäx]

Looks like I need to get hold of a copy of CP2020. It seems to positively ooze with ideas...

I would really recomend that you get copies of the Cromebooks(1-4), those are shock full of cool stuff.

[InfinityzeN]

And they have compiled Chromebooks, basically 1&2 and 3&4. Will save you a lil money and they are the last printing so they have all the fixes in them.

Also Maximum Metal if you want to read on ACPA.