Can't Figure Out Rigging and Remote Control, Please answer what you can. Options

[ornot]

I don't fully understand the drone rules, although TBH, this thread has confused me more than the book has.

As I run them, drones seem to be hideously effective at mowing down mooks, but I guess they should be. I require a rigger to make a sensor+clearsight to lock onto a target, and then a pilot+targetting roll to shoot. I suspect I might be allowing too many shots, since they've been using long bursts (simple action) to fire in the same pass as the targeting roll (simple action?).

[Ryu]

For autonomous drones:

Active Target Aquisition: Simple Action, Sensor+Clearsight (likely at -3, Signature modifier table). Doesn´t fire a weapon.

Passive Target Aquisition: Sensor + Targetting (likely at -3, Signature modifier table). Fires a weapon, an alternative to attacking with Pilot + Targetting (which looks much the same at first glance, but will have different mods).

Firing a vehicle weapon system: Complex action.

So it is either "lock on and maybe do something else", or "shoot", but not lock-on and shoot. You might want to read the rules on Indirect Targetting (Arsenal), and I have a hunch you already know about Tactical AR software. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Graushwein]

Man Ryu we are just on opposite sides of the coin! We should just meet and fight it out in person to get this over with! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)

In passive targetting it doesn't require any actions. With drones you can choose that. I always thought that lock on was for missile launchers and things with autotracking. I always read it as if there is a bunch of cars on the road and you want to detect a single one. But if there is only one car in an open field, and you know where it is, then you shouldn't have to lock onto it unless your firing a weapon that requires a lock to fire.

As far as I've thought, if you know where someone is and it is obvious, then they are detected. Anyone not detected you haven't spotted yet and could try to suprise you.

[ornot]

For autonomous drones:

Active Target Aquisition: Simple Action, Sensor+Clearsight (likely at -3, Signature modifier table). Doesn´t fire a weapon.

Passive Target Aquisition: Sensor + Targetting (likely at -3, Signature modifier table). Fires a weapon, an alternative to attacking with Pilot + Targetting (which looks much the same at first glance, but will have different mods).

Firing a vehicle weapon system: Complex action.

So it is either "lock on and maybe do something else", or "shoot", but not lock-on and shoot. You might want to read the rules on Indirect Targetting (Arsenal), and I have a hunch you already know about Tactical AR software. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

But if you can shoot something with passive target aquisition using sensor+targetting, why would anyone use active target aquisition, which requires an additional autosoft, delays firing until the next IP, and uses pilot, which is more costly to raise than sensor?

I felt when I was running it, that the firing rate was too high, but I'm still not clear what I was doing wrong.

I thought there was a signature issue, but I couldn't find the damned table in my book last night. I should put in some book marks.

Also, while reading the section on indirect targetting will no doubt be useful, my players are using machine guns and assault rifles mounted on drones, which surely use direct fire, not indirect fire? Wish I had my books to hand, but I ought to be working (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

[Ryu]

In passive targetting it doesn't require any actions. With drones you can choose that. I always thought that lock on was for missile launchers and things with autotracking. I always read it as if there is a bunch of cars on the road and you want to detect a single one. But if there is only one car in an open field, and you know where it is, then you shouldn't have to lock onto it unless your firing a weapon that requires a lock to fire.

Read my post again:
- Passive targeting permits you to shoot, that is what I said. It doesn´t take an (extra) action to use, and I did not claim so.
- You can shoot via passive targeting, but it won´t gain you a lock-on. You can shoot without lock-on, and that I said.
- In fact, you have two options for shooting without lock-on, and I mentioned both.

[Ryu]

But if you can shoot something with passive target aquisition using sensor+targetting, why would anyone use active target aquisition, which requires an additional autosoft, delays firing until the next IP, and uses pilot, which is more costly to raise than sensor?

Because instead of aiming like a normal combatant, you gain a (net hits) bonus to DP that will pretty much last until the opponent is dead. And said bonus can be shared with all team members (Indirect targeting). Also, see the errata (the 1.5 linked on the actual errata page will do, but there is a more recent one), Active Targeting uses Sensor+Clearsight.

[ornot]

So Active targetting is worthwhile if you're attacking something that is likely to be sticking about for a little while - probably not people.

So, my players can use passive targetting to make their long bursts, as they have been, but as it's a simple action, can they do that twice a turn, since they've equipped their drones with assault rifles, which can make short bursts?

[Ryu]

They can make an FA-burst and separate that into two salvos, as per the usual FA burst rules.

[ornot]

Are assault rifles on a drone restricted to FA fire then? I don't recall seeing that in the rules...

[Ryu]

You can elect to fire a single shot or a single salvo, no problem. You were asking about two salvos - that can be done, but only with FA weapons. You get to pull the trigger once.

[Malachi]

Looking back over the rules, I see that Ryu is right about firing vehicle weapons. It is clearly stated as always being a Complex action (BBB, Combat, pg. 137, look at the chart). Again on pg. 160, "Fire a Vehicle Weapon" is listed as a Complex action for the Passenger or Driver. This latter part is key because when a Drone is operating autonomously, it uses its Pilot rating for all tests as if it were the driver. So, even if you have a SS or SA weapon, it takes a complex action to fire one shot from it, and no second shot is possible. The only burr in this theory is the text on page 162, but at this point I'm inclined to ignore it based on the fact that there are "more" places that list firing a vehicle weapon as a Complex Action only.

All the Sensor and Gunnery stuff that Ryu is talking about is found on page 162.

[kzt]

Looking back over the rules, I see that Ryu is right about firing vehicle weapons. It is clearly stated as always being a Complex action (BBB, Combat, pg. 137, look at the chart). Again on pg. 160, "Fire a Vehicle Weapon" is listed as a Complex action for the Passenger or Driver. This latter part is key because when a Drone is operating autonomously, it uses its Pilot rating for all tests as if it were the driver. So, even if you have a SS or SA weapon, it takes a complex action to fire one shot from it, and no second shot is possible. The only burr in this theory is the text on page 162, but at this point I'm inclined to ignore it based on the fact that there are "more" places that list firing a vehicle weapon as a Complex Action only.

All the Sensor and Gunnery stuff that Ryu is talking about is found on page 162.

We mostly used machine guns firing full bursts. Drones ignore recoil, so unless you are trying to be precise you might as well.

[Graushwein]

We mostly used machine guns firing full bursts. Drones ignore recoil, so unless you are trying to be precise you might as well.

Just so I know, where does it say that drones ignore recoil please?

[kzt]

Don't have my books handy, but in somewhere in Arsenal IIRC.

[DWC]

Just so I know, where does it say that drones ignore recoil please?

It's in the rules for weapon mounts. All vehicle weapon mounts negate recoil penalties.

[Dashifen]

The information you're seeking is on p. 146 of Arsenal. There's some other information on p. 105 as well. I go with the rule of thumb, as the book calls it, on p. 105 which is that vehicle mounted weapons receive the body of the vehicle as recoil compensation.