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> HMHVV Transmission, A couple of PCs got some claw swipes from ghouls...
TKDNinjaInBlack
post Jan 23 2009, 02:23 AM
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I haven't looked into RC too thoroughly in the HMHVV section, so I am missing out on Ghoul Virus transmission. Is it through bite or through any kind of open wound incurred by the PC's? By the core book, Ghouls can't transmit anything, and with Vampires they have essence drain, so I was just asking for a quick answer to see what to do about the characters that took some physical damage from a few claw swipes.
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kzt
post Jan 23 2009, 03:44 AM
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QUOTE (TKDNinjaInBlack @ Jan 22 2009, 07:23 PM) *
I haven't looked into RC too thoroughly in the HMHVV section, so I am missing out on Ghoul Virus transmission. Is it through bite or through any kind of open wound incurred by the PC's? By the core book, Ghouls can't transmit anything, and with Vampires they have essence drain, so I was just asking for a quick answer to see what to do about the characters that took some physical damage from a few claw swipes.

IIRC, once upon a time there was a vaccine that could be administered after exposure...
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Hartbaine
post Jan 23 2009, 03:49 AM
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I've had this come up in a game. I just defaulted to saliva. So clawing wouldn't transmit, but a good solid bite (Physical, not Stun) could possibly spread infection. Blood is also a vector, so those too close and catching sprays or spatters of blood may come down with munchies as well.
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NetWraith
post Jan 23 2009, 04:09 AM
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IIRC, the vector for it is contact.
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JeffSz
post Jan 23 2009, 04:49 AM
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p. 83, Runner's Companion.

"HMHVV III (Ghilani Wichtiviridae)...

...responsible for the creation of ghouls, and is typically spread by unprotected contact with those creatures or their bodily fluids..."

Bandersnatchii, fomoraig, and loup-garou are also spread through unprotected contact with bodily fluids.

Vampires, banshees, dzoo-noo-qua, goblins, nosferatu, and wendigo are created via the Infection power (not sure the specifics of that one, but I assume it means you can't just bleed on somebody or spit in their eye.)
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Snap_Dragon
post Jan 23 2009, 05:21 AM
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magic can cure the disease before essence loss starts occurring. As a GM I'd make their hair fallout or make them have trouble seeing just to give them the hint. Emphasize throbbing claw wounds and encourage them to seek magical medical attention.
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Dancer
post Jan 23 2009, 07:32 AM
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I had thought that prompt competent medical attention could arrest and destroy the virus, provided you catch it in the incubation period. Possibly I'm misremembering.
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ornot
post Jan 23 2009, 08:06 AM
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Really it's a GM call whether the exposure was extreme or prolonged enough. If you feel it would make a better game then by all means request disease resistance checks, but if having your players infected would complicate the game unnecessarily, then forget it. You can always roll a few dice behind your screen, smirk at them, and tell them they're feeling all rundown and stuff. IIRC there is no cure, but there might be prophylactic measures they could acquire at vast expense.

I would come down hard on any player who thought becoming a ghoul was a good idea for the stat bonuses. Being altered in such a way should not be high up any character's to do list.
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paws2sky
post Jan 23 2009, 02:36 PM
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Make it an adventure unto itself. The injured PCs start feeling rundown, vision starts getting blurry, hair falling out, etc. All the signs of initial exposure. If the PCs ignore it, have their contacts make comments about their health until they get the hint. They a Street Doc, who says he could cure them, but he doesn't have all the necessary ingredients to whip up the right kind of drug cocktail. Fortunately, he knows where he can get the drugs. And if the PCs can liberate a few other things on his shopping list while they're getting what they need, he'll be happy to help them out. Possibly even free of charge.

-paws
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nezumi
post Jan 23 2009, 02:53 PM
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SR3 made this pretty clear in the Companion, and I'm currently running through it with a character (I had two infected, but one of them blew up. Completely unrelated.)

The companion has all sorts of rules for how to determine infection. It's not just contact, but an actual successful attack with claws or teeth. You make a body test, I forget the TN, it's in the 4 or 6 range. You need at least 3 successes to be completely unaffected. 0 successes is complete infection. Everything else falls in between. Then you roll a willpower test against a TN of 6. This is the important one, because it determines how much of a monster you become. 0 is an animal and you take major hits to your attributes. You need 2 or more to basically keep your personality (and thereby remain a PC). The kicker is none of these tests allow for karma pool, so it's pretty serious.

The disease takes 90 days. The first 30 days are quiet, and it's treatable then, if you know it's there to be treated. After that things start to degrade, and it's not clear if you can still be treated. Needless to say, permanent effects are permanent, whether you're treated or not.

Characters who get hit but don't suffer infection can still be carriers.

In my game, treatment is pretty nasty, and it'll take you out of action for a few weeks, more or less as it runs its course. However, you can take other medication to slow infection, if you're just 'in a rush'. A good way to allow a PC to keep on that path of infection even when he knows it's already progressing.
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Neraph
post Jan 23 2009, 04:36 PM
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Runner's Companion has pretty neat rules. Treat HMHVV as a pathogen (doesn't go away as soon as you make the save). But also, it should be noted that there is no known antipathogen or "cure" for HMHVV. You get it, you either die or turn. End of story (unless you want to continue the story as an Infected). I'm playing a Nosferatu with Carrier (Dzoo-noo-qua), Carrier (Banshee), and Carrier (Ghoul). As close as I could read, if my guy so much as bumps into someone on the street, they're at risk of HMHVV.

In order to prevent possible outbreaks, my guy wears r4-r6 Chemical Protection clothes (long coat with hood) and wears a r6 respirator all the time. Only his eys are showing, and he normally has glasses on. Otherwise he'd be the Outbreak monkey.

EDIT: Yes, Nosferatu, Vampire, Banshee, and Dzoo-noo-qua all have to be passed in an exact nature, and since can't be caught on accident. Think Vampires like the Interview with a Vampire movie/book, and Ghouls like Resident Evil (with a little more intelligence).
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Jan 23 2009, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jan 23 2009, 05:36 PM) *
Treat HMHVV as a pathogen (doesn't go away as soon as you make the save).

That depends on how you read the actual rules for pathogens:
QUOTE (Augmentation, p. 130)
The victim makes a resistance test using Body + the rating of any protective systems, implants, or medicines. Every hit reduces the disease's Power by 1 point. If the Power is reduced to zero, the disease takes no effect; otherwise apply relevant effects depending on the remaining Power rating.
If the pathogen's Power is not reduced to zero, it is added to the pathogen's Power when rolling the next subsequent Disease Resistance Test. This accumulation continues only for a number of resistance tests as listed in parentheses after the Speed in the pathogen description. After the minimum number of tests have been made, the infection has peaked, and Power will no longer accumulate.
The effects of the disease will continue until subsequent resistance tests finally reduce its Power to zero.

So, basically, the first test is the infection test: If passed, the character does not catch the disease, at all.
Otherwise, every disease in SR4 has a 100% ratio of infection... even rabies hasn't IRL.

Oh, and BTW:
QUOTE (Runners Companion)
No inoculations or antiviral agent has been developed which provides any bonus or protection against any species of HMHVV, though the innate resistance to disease of dwarfs does apply, as does the Cure Disease spell, if applied in time.

As O-Cells are neither inocculation nor antiviral agent, but immune response, their reduction of Power applies - even Augmentation does not include any limits of effectiveness.
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nezumi
post Jan 23 2009, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Jan 23 2009, 11:36 AM) *
But also, it should be noted that there is no known antipathogen or "cure" for HMHVV. You get it, you either die or turn. End of story (unless you want to continue the story as an Infected).


Depends on the strain. Krieger strain can be cured, if caught in time.
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Starmage21
post Jan 23 2009, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Jan 23 2009, 02:45 PM) *
Depends on the strain. Krieger strain can be cured, if caught in time.


Yeah Kreiger can be cured if you administer treatments before you've turned. Once you turn though, youre screwed unless you actually wanted to be a ghoul.
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toturi
post Jan 23 2009, 11:25 PM
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Actually HMHVV can be cured via Cure Disease, if applied in time. p82 RC
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toturi
post Jan 23 2009, 11:29 PM
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toturi
post Jan 23 2009, 11:31 PM
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toturi
post Jan 23 2009, 11:32 PM
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toturi
post Jan 23 2009, 11:34 PM
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toturi
post Jan 23 2009, 11:36 PM
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Jan 23 2009, 11:39 PM
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At least in SR2 and SR3, it could be cured in the first 30 days...
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toturi
post Jan 23 2009, 11:40 PM
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toturi
post Jan 23 2009, 11:48 PM
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Neraph
post Jan 24 2009, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 23 2009, 05:48 PM) *
Cure Disease works, in applied in time. p82 RC

We got it the first 6 times. Cut it out.
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merashin
post Jan 24 2009, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 23 2009, 03:48 PM) *
Cure Disease works, in applied in time. p82 RC

that is the first sextuple post i have ever seen
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