Female Trolls, Do they even exist? Options

[Karoline]

I dont think I ever mentioned race... and looking back I cant find saying they were a differant species (I suggested a hypothesis that they were and was quickly disproved in RAW). the closest I came was saying they were probably a different subspecies. so why would I care what... SR racists agree with?

Weird, I know someone said something about them being a different race (Specifically talking about racists actually being against a different race) and thought it was you. Must have gotten it mixed up in the few dozen posts over the last 20 minutes. Sorry about that.

[D2F]

Weird, I know someone said something about them being a different race (Specifically talking about racists actually being against a different race) and thought it was you. Must have gotten it mixed up in the few dozen posts over the last 20 minutes. Sorry about that.

That would have been Shinobi Killfist, who thankfully zipped his screamer.

[Karoline]

That would have been Shinobi Killfist, who thankfully zipped his screamer.

Hmm, must have gotten the two mixed up then.

[Daylen]

Weird, I know someone said something about them being a different race (Specifically talking about racists actually being against a different race) and thought it was you. Must have gotten it mixed up in the few dozen posts over the last 20 minutes. Sorry about that.

no prob, its been alot of posts in a short time

[Delarn]

Hahaha! So true.
Makes me wish I could still have a million nuyen in SR4 =)

I would have made a Jarhead Cyborg (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[D2F]

I would have made a Jarhead Cyborg (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I would have made myself a warform Biodrone =)

[Shinobi Killfist]

That would have been Shinobi Killfist, who thankfully zipped his screamer.

Wow, you are just full of douche bag aren't you. In previous editions they referred to them both as race and metatype, if you want to get your panties in a bunch over this go right ahead. Still doesn't change the fact that Hot female trolls are lame.

[Delarn]

Wow, you are just full of douche bag aren't you. In previous editions they referred to them both as race and metatype, if you want to get your panties in a bunch over this go right ahead. Still doesn't change the fact that Hot female trolls are lame.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

[D2F]

Wow, you are just full of douche bag aren't you.

Probably. The thing is: I have a really low tolerance for stupidity and you passed my threshold. You can't just spout outright lies, masked as arguments and think you can get away with it unscathed. Especially when the rulesbooks you are trying to refer to directly contradict your own claims. Multiple posters here have already made you aware of that little fact yet you keep ignoring it. Sorry, but ignorance is not an excuse.

In previous editions they referred to them both as race and metatype, if you want to get your panties in a bunch over this go right ahead.

Regardless of how often you repeat that, it is not true. The only mention of "Race" in ANY SR edition is in the context of priority assignment. And even in the description of that very category, the text refers explicitly to its reference to the player characters metatype. Again, you can jump and kick and scream until you are blue in the face. Even if you repeat your nonsense a hundred times, it will STILL not be true.

You might even get away with your ruse, if you were arguing with someone who started with 3rd or 4th ed, but I have been playing since 1st edition as well and I know the lore. You can't hide behind editions from me.

Still doesn't change the fact that Hot female trolls are lame.

Personal opinion and as such irrelevant to the discussion.

[Karoline]

Still doesn't change the fact that Hot female trolls are lame.

So, check out the picture in the middle of the buzzkill story that is at the beginning of SR4.

[Blade]

You're all wrong and racists. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Now can we get back to hot female troll pr0n? (Or whatever the topic was)

A Troll Merc and his Mol

http://remainaery.deviantart.com/art/Golia...ission-58533216

I like the male troll in this one: still troll enough but not ridiculous/ugly.
But the female doesn't look like a troll to me. At first I thought she was a human (or ork) with horns.

[Sengir]

You're all wrong and racists. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Sure, we were just figuring out against whom we can really be racist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And while my oooooold copy of SR2 (no, I didn't play back then) mentions "race" a few times, the descriptions of metatypes make it obvious that "race" was used in its everyday meaning, as in "human races", and not in the scientific sense of the word.

Now can we get back to hot female troll pr0n? (Or whatever the topic was)

Damn, I thought it was about hot ot troll-on-dwarf action (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

But the female doesn't look like a troll to me. At first I thought she was a human (or ork) with horns.

Would be a fine example of a changeling who is not a complete freak, though. Which also seems to be rare.

[D2F]

Sure, we were just figuring out against whom we can really be racist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And while my oooooold copy of SR2 (no, I didn't play back then) mentions "race" a few times, the descriptions of metatypes make it obvious that "race" was used in its everyday meaning, as in "human races", and not in the scientific sense of the word.

"Race" is not a scientific term to begin with.

[Wesley Street]

Lady sasquatches are hot.

*fap fap fap*

[Delarn]

"Race" is not a scientific term to begin with.

But still it's the term used to describe the different genus in previous edition. It evolved to Transhumanity and Metahumanity.

[D2F]

But still it's the term used to describe the different genus in previous edition. It evolved to Transhumanity and Metahumanity.

My second edition printing still says "Metatype". The only mention of "Race" in there is in relation to the Priority category and even the description of that category states that "race" in this case refers to "metatype".

Unfortunately, my 1st ed BBB is in ruins right now.

[Delarn]

My second edition printing still says "Metatype". The only mention of "Race" in there is in relation to the Priority category and even the description of that category states that "race" in this case refers to "metatype".

Unfortunately, my 1st ed BBB is in ruins right now.

http://puddingbat.deviantart.com/art/Crunch1-21827615
http://liik.deviantart.com/art/Cody-109563144

Female trolls !

[SpellBinder]

Considering that ork children express the robustus 95% of the time at puberty (source SR4, pg 66; or SR4a, pg 72) means that there's a 5% chance an ork child is actually human, and until puberty you can't tell an ork child from a human child just by looking at them. Then there's the giants, a troll metavariant, where 25% of all females are born human (source RC, pg 57), and is mentioned as "genetic reversion".

That, and IIRC it's mentioned somewhere that children of crossbreeding (i.e.; elf mother, troll father) tend to result in human offspring as opposed to the metatype of either parent. This I could be wrong, but it's something stuck rattling in my brain from somewhere.

[Dahrken]

Yes, I remember the point about crossbreeding (but not from where it comes). This makes sense, as each parent has adifferent set of metagenes, probably sharing several locations on chromosomes. This reduce the likelyhood of the child to have a complete set of either metatype, so he more often than not is sapiens.

[SpellBinder]

At least I know I'm not hallucinating this one.

Thought I'd dig up an older book, and I found this that might be a little helpful:

Can we have babies together? Many people wonder about mixing the races. The surest proof that we are all the same species is that we can all interbreed--that is, you can have children with a member of any other metahuman race. The children of mixed-race couples are the race of one of the parents. For example, the child of an elf and an ork would be an elf baby or an ork baby, not a half-breed. Because the magic that caused the new races to emerge is still new, some same-race couples may still get a surprise when they see their baby. Human couples can have a baby of another race; other same-race couples, such as two dwarfs or two trolls, may have a human baby. As time goes on, these babies that are racially different from their parents are becoming more and more rare. Most same-race couples have babies of their own race.

So I guess I was wrong after all, after a fashion. Also, I figure the usage of the term "race" in the above is used in the same fashion as race is used to describe Caucasian or Latino or Asian (to name a few examples), and not meaning to suggest a radical difference like lions and horses.

And as of the timeline for SR4, I guess the genetic drift for metavariants has stabilized. Especially when I found similar references in the SR4 & SR4a books about mixed parentage (50/50 chance of being either parent's metatype), that goblinization is not only exceedingly rare but also something that can only happen to a human at puberty, and nothing about surprise babies (dwarf parents getting a troll baby, for example).

[The Jopp]

This DO opens up a few ideas if we go by the Earthdawn/Shadowrun connection.

The awakening started the split of metahumanity into sifferent subgroups of metahumans and they all call themselves metahumans in 2070 – most likely since they all see each other as metahumans because all emerged from the same Homo Sapiens Sapien.

But what about in a thousand years? In Earthdawn they all see themselves as different species/people that cannot interbreed (if I remember correctly). In a thousand year or two the awakening will be so much legend if metahumanity have a serious case of information breakdown (like a second VITAS plague combined with a third world war).

[D2F]

This DO opens up a few ideas if we go by the Earthdawn/Shadowrun connection.

The awakening started the split of metahumanity into sifferent subgroups of metahumans and they all call themselves metahumans in 2070 – most likely since they all see each other as metahumans because all emerged from the same Homo Sapiens Sapien.

But what about in a thousand years? In Earthdawn they all see themselves as different species/people that cannot interbreed (if I remember correctly). In a thousand year or two the awakening will be so much legend if metahumanity have a serious case of information breakdown (like a second VITAS plague combined with a third world war).

A couple things are relevant there:

1.) Genetic drift. Given enough time, they could develop into distinctly different species (unlikely, but in general possible)
2.) Quite a few of the earthdawn races are still missing. Obsidians and Tskrang to name just two.
3.) The significantly higher mana level in Earthdawn could have a more dire effect on the genetic expression of "awakened genes", further emphasizing speciation.
4.) Earthdawn is not Shadowrun. They are tied together by their background, but to draw direct comparisons between the two is impractical. They vary far too much from each other to be considered equal (ressurection, to name one of the aspects, the scale of Blood magic to name the other).

[Sengir]

The awakening started the split of metahumanity into sifferent subgroups of metahumans and they all call themselves metahumans in 2070 – most likely since they all see each other as metahumans because all emerged from the same Homo Sapiens Sapien.

But what about in a thousand years?

IRL humanity also shares a common ancestry, yet we still have plenty of racism.

[The Jopp]

IRL humanity also shares a common ancestry, yet we still have plenty of racism.

True, but the distinction between Homo Sapien Sapien and Homo Sapien Robustus would be akin (in appearance) to the Cro-magnon and modern man due to the awakening creating a more distinct difference than mere skin colour and superficial facial changes.

Common ancestry will disperse over time and one could say that the awakening shifted people a few hundred thousand years apart in an instant.

[D2F]

True, but the distinction between Homo Sapien Sapien and Homo Sapien Robustus would be akin (in appearance) to the Cro-magnon and modern man due to the awakening creating a more distinct difference than mere skin colour and superficial facial changes.

Common ancestry will disperse over time and one could say that the awakening shifted people a few hundred thousand years apart in an instant.

You can't just go by appearance, though. Scientific knowledge won't simply disappear over night. Take a look at an Irish Wolfhound and a Chichuaha. They are still the same species. Hell, they are even the same subspecies. But they look nothing alike.

On a sidenote: The Cro-Magnon, or "Early Modern Human" (EMH)/"Anatomically Modern Human" (AMH) looked pretty much like a modern human already. Your analogy between EMH and robustus is flawed.