Female Trolls, Do they even exist? Options

[paws2sky]

Also, I have no idea where you got the idea that trolls slobber and have skewed eyes. They're humans, and don't have a natural predisposition towards deformity. The hunching is likely to be a byproduct of the longer arms, but could easily be corrected by good posture.

In fact, the issue of hunching comes up in a bit of fluff I once read. Not sure if it was canon (probably it wasn't)...

The speaker (a troll) claimed that the reason trolls appear to hunch all the time is that there aren't many buildings (especially older ones) built with their height in mind. Consequently, that have to hunch over or they'll either tear the ceilings up with their horns or continuously bump their heads.

-paws

[Tashiro]

In fact, the issue of hunching comes up in a bit of fluff I once read. Not sure if it was canon (probably it wasn't)...

The speaker (a troll) claimed that the reason trolls appear to hunch all the time is that there aren't many buildings (especially older ones) built with their height in mind. Consequently, that have to hunch over or they'll either tear the ceilings up with their horns or continuously bump their heads.

-paws

Makes sense, actually. I do like the Earthdawn pictures of trolls I've seen, and some of the SR ones that seem to mirror it -- big, shaggy guys. But I've wondered what the female trolls are like -- are they 'shaggy' as well? *shrugs*

Oh, and I take back some of what I said with Runner's Companion. Two pages have what I'd call 'webcomic art', but the other pictures showing the meta races were pretty damn good, and gave a better feel for the races.

[Wesley Street]

There's a lady troll prostitute (trollstitute?) ink drawing in the Tir na Nog sourcebook. It's the most accurate rendering I've seen.

[Kev]

You know, whenever I picture a female troll, I just kind of picture a thick, tall woman with tusks. I mean, yeah, let's face it - they're gonna be ugly as sin by modern definitions, but similarity breeds attraction, so trolls would have a different definition of beauty than, say, an elf.

If I had my tablet, I'd whip up a quick sketch of what I picture a female troll to look like.

Also, jumping on the idea of troll charisma; charisma isn't how you look (though this will help - see the old SR3 quality "Good Looking and Knows It") - it's how you act. Your confidence, your ability to talk, your sense of humor, wit, and timing. All of these things are your charisma.

How do you think Jack Black is so popular? He's ugly as sin, but he can still woo the ladies because he has high charisma.

In fact, I'm pretty sure Jack Black is just a really charismatic ORC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[hyzmarca]

I have to concede to all these. I thought those pictures were supposed to be average representations of the species though?

Many babies are born with budding teeth, and some with full heads of hair. With the amount of pronouncement on the tusks, I'm willing to bet they come in /early/. As for dental growth, do I remember reading in old editions that both Orks and Trolls went through more than two sets of teeth in their short lifetimes?

Trolls and orks shouldn't be born with tusks, and trolls shouldn't be born with horns. Why? Because labor is dangerous enough as it is without large hard sharp things getting in the way. Teeth are one thing, they're fully contained within the mouth, and hair is fairly soft, but animals that have prominent sharp protrusions aren't born with them. The massive internal bleeding that would naturally result isn't exactly conducive to maternal survival.

[Wesley Street]

Dermal. Plated. Vagina.

[Panzergeist]

More to the point, do female players willing to play unattractive characters actually exist?

[Fyndhal]

I think it would be worthwhile for Catalyst to have an image showing the major races, in both sexes next to one another, police lineup style, complete with height grid in the background.

Something similar to this http://www.cliffordbbowyer.com/Race_Example-PH2.gif but with both sexes depicted. (Forgive my referencing of that OTHER game here...it was for a good cause!)

[Kanada Ten]

This thread has some still linking troll females. In swimsuits, no less.

[Tashiro]

More to the point, do female players willing to play unattractive characters actually exist?

By the fact my female player is playing a female troll, possibly?

[pbangarth]

Is there any reason... logic, fluff, whatever, that trolls -must- be ugly to non-trolls?

[BlueMax]

Is there any reason... logic, fluff, whatever, that trolls -must- be ugly to non-trolls?

Depends on your interpretation of a trolls natural Dermal Armor. While it may look "tough" on males, for females it posses a large problem to overcome based on our societies idea of beauty.

There is a picture of a possible Troll-ess that is an EVO advert. I say possible because she has a beautiful horn and body but no obvious dermal. And thanks to the lack of scale, I am not certain on the size.

[ornot]

There are numerous references in canon to female trolls. As for what they look like, that's more of a problem.

I agree that with the widespread availability of biosculpting anyone with any money will not be ugly. The lower charisma of Orks and Trolls I put down to their generally fearsome proportions, rather than any obvious deformities.

That being said, the dermal deposits ought to be fairly disfiguring, and would be pretty tricky to remove without their removal being obvious (either in terms of assymetry, or excessive symmetry).

[pbangarth]

Yes, I can see that dermal armour seems to be the sticking point for a lot of people. In terms of society's ideal of beauty, that is very malleable. What was considered beautiful in 1870 is different from that in 1970. 2070 could be just as different, particularly with the advent of a whole LOT of new expressions of sub-species of homo sapiens.

And whatever the modifications for sub-species, they are just that... trolls are meta-humans, not meta-rhinoceroces. Rhinoceri? Rhini? ...my brain hurts...

[Ed_209a]

...The speaker (a troll) claimed that the reason trolls appear to hunch all the time is that there aren't many buildings (especially older ones) built with their height in mind. Consequently, that have to hunch over or they'll either tear the ceilings up with their horns or continuously bump their heads.

-paws

One thing that I think would make me grumpy if I were a troll is the knowledge that all I have to do to fit into human-size building is...

knuckle walk. Just like a fraggin ape...

So, do I want to constantly humiliate myself, or constantly fix drywall...

Nah, I think I'll go dismember some wageslaves.

[paws2sky]

Is there any reason... logic, fluff, whatever, that trolls -must- be ugly to non-trolls?

Not that I can think of.

re: Dermal removal
While this may be one of the more extensive and time intensive cosmetic surgeries available, its certainly not difficult.

My personal (non-canon) view of troll dermal armor is that it can ranges in appearance from the rocky/spiky, dermal protrusions (a la the SR3 Sprawl Ganger) to a smoother, rhino-like hide (a la Orthoskin). Children born as trolls tend toward the latter, while those undergoing UGE tend toward the former. The most hideous expressions of troll metahumanity occurred during the early days of goblinization and again during the YotC SURGE phenomena.

Also, I think it would be a good idea to take a cue from D&D 3e and do a lineup of the common metahuman races for general comparison. This was sort of done in RC, well, sort of.

(BTW, the female orc from the PHB 3.0 is frickin' awesome. That is how I picture a buff SR ork girl. The gunslinger adept being the other end of the spectrum; small-ish, lithe, and wiry.)

-paws

[Kanada Ten]

As I biosculpter, I personally hate working on trolls. I don't even do it at my shop at the mall. Why would I pay ten percent more for all the equipment and beds I need - plus the specialized machines for dermal treatments and horn modification, for less than one percent of my clientele? It's not like most trolls have money, or even jobs for that matter. How many trolls do you see walking around the mall? Yeah, nada. Plus, even when you're finished, after all the hours of work and programming, they're still ugly. They don't call them trolls for nothing, if you know what I mean. Now, orks... orks I can handle, though their sense of humor is beyond me. You need a brain surgeon to fix that.

[hyzmarca]

Dermal. Plated. Vagina.

Actually, that would be even worse. It would greatly increase the probability of the baby getting stuck and suffocating to death, necessitating major surgery to remove the rotting baby corpse or else risking deadly infection.

That being said, the dermal deposits ought to be fairly disfiguring, and would be pretty tricky to remove without their removal being obvious (either in terms of assymetry, or excessive symmetry).

That's where you'd be wrong. Dermal is beautiful, my man. Some trolls see these supermodels on the trid and spend a small fortune getting their deposits shaped and augmented to conform to the media's idea of beauty. But me, I prefer naturals. You can always tell when a troll has their dermals lifted, tucked, polished, or enlarged and it never looks exactly right. But natural dermals, whether big or small, glossy or matte, knobby or smooth, rough or fine, symmetrical or asymmetrical uniform or irregular, perky or saggy, they're all amazing in their own ways. And they all deserve respect.

And you know how some sex toys have bumps or protrusions to increase stimulation? Well, you've never truly lived until you've gotten dermal from an experienced troll.

[masterofm]

Interesting point. However may I add that they will rip out your arms and beat you with it if you piss them off?

Also trolls would be more likely to be hired more then any other meta race. They are good grunts, good for security slightly less intelligent then most of the other meta races (except orcs,) you also can charge trolls twice as much, since you have to get specialty equipment (and if you did you probably wouldn't set up shop in a mall that was not built for trolls.) There are probably specialty troll malls, but I would think that they would probably be a drive to get to (kind of like outlet malls.)

*edit* dang it hyzmarca that sure did change the beat of this thread. Oh well... it was bound to happen. *edit*

[InfinityzeN]

I had to perform cybernecromancy on the Shadowrun Swimsuit Issue thread. I'za sorry, it needed to live again... well... as alive as a cyberzombie ever gets anyway.

[JeffSz]

That's where you'd be wrong. Dermal is beautiful, my man. Some trolls see these supermodels on the trid and spend a small fortune getting their deposits shaped and augmented to conform to the media's idea of beauty. But me, I prefer naturals. You can always tell when a troll has their dermals lifted, tucked, polished, or enlarged and it never looks exactly right. But natural dermals, whether big or small, glossy or matte, knobby or smooth, rough or fine, symmetrical or asymmetrical uniform or irregular, perky or saggy, they're all amazing in their own ways. And they all deserve respect.

And you know how some sex toys have bumps or protrusions to increase stimulation? Well, you've never truly lived until you've gotten dermal from an experienced troll.

Excellent. I was going to home in on that point.

She's covered in horns and dermal plating and she's beefy and tusked. To a male troll, she's drop-dead gorgeous, and those knobby bone deposits are in just the right places.

[ChipheadCharley]

There is a picture of one in Target:Matrix in the section dealing with matrix brothels. Yes, I do know its 3rd edition.

[AllTheNothing]

So, got a player, and she decided to play a female troll. After looking through the books, we found, maybe, one picture with a female troll in it, and that's not even a good representation. Are there actually female trolls, and what do they look like? Do we have visual evidence? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Someone toss me a book and page number!

Honestly, I'd love to see more artwork showing female representations of the races, just so people know what they look like. Trolls and orcs, especially, since I want to try to get past the stereotype of 'ugly brute'.

Female Ork?
BBB, Gunslinger Adept in the sample characters.

Female Troll?
Tir na nOg sourcebook p. 56.

[AllTheNothing]

Is there any reason... logic, fluff, whatever, that trolls -must- be ugly to non-trolls?

In Arsenal there's a reference to a dwarf dealer that has a fetish for male trolls (I couldn't belive my own eyes reading it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ).

[Squinky]

I follow more of the logic that Trolls are altered humans essentially. I love the muppet looking trolls from Shadowrun art, and if someone wanted to play one in my games I'd think it was great. I Kinda like to draw "hot" Troll and Ork chicks:

Like this one I did for ImmortalElf of his character Silver

Or this quickie I did of a troll chick

There's some more on there in the mix (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)