Cheesy Sustained Improved Reflexes, The spell and a sustaining focus combined Options

[InfinityzeN]

The effects of a disparity in power will come down to the individual players more then anything. A more experienced player who makes an effort to let the other players shine can get away with being far more powerful.

Case in Point: In a game I played from 2001~2002, I was the only experienced player (out of 6) with more total experience then all the other players and GM combined. We all made characters to fit a new vamp theme and mine died in the first game (one of the players realised that the tattoos we had kept us from attacking each other, then set about repeatedly pissing off my brujah till I frenzed in front of the prince.)

So the GM told me to make a "Keep an eye on them" character for the next game and I used every bit of my V:tM 1st through 3rd knowledge to create the most over powered Tremere "Templar" (Mage with melee skill, wears armor, fights "Old Ones"). Then I spent the next 6 months of play time in the background, guiding and teaching the other players, providing support, etc. I actually enjoyed it a lot.

Finally, we had one game in which the GM needed to capture us to advance the story, only he didn't tell us this. So we get jumped by a pack of Sabbat and all the other PCs go down in two rounds. I cut loose with everything I had, killed all the ones in that pack in three rounds, then finally got taken down by the second pack after mostly raping them too (ran out of blood). Even the GM freaked after the fight, since he didn't realise how nasty my character was. Having Path of Blood, Lore of Flames, Movement of the Mind, Path of Conjuring and Path of Shielding at 5, with Melee (Swords) 4 and more enchanted items (self created) then your average D&D party might have something to do with it.

Ahhh, good times. But the point is, I could have killed every other PC in a couple of rounds with little to no danger to my character but he provided backup and support (along with behind the scenes protection) instead.

[ornot]

I've noticed a couple of people saying that inexperienced players can learn some tricks from PCs generated by more experienced characters, and I can't think of anything worse.

Most Dumpshockers will be familiar with the tricks of making every BP stretch (soft-maxing skillz ftw, take gymnastics or dodge, never both etc.), the best must-have gear (I'm looking at you FFBA) and so on. While it is a nice idea to make sure that a newb player is steered away from errors due to inexperience (whoops, you forgot perception; or as a better example the rigger with flying drones who took 5 ranks of pilot ground, and none of pilot aircraft), I'd rather they not be encouraged to make characters soley from the veiwpoint of utility.

[Mäx]

I've noticed a couple of people saying that inexperienced players can learn some tricks from PCs generated by more experienced characters, and I can't think of anything worse.

Most Dumpshockers will be familiar with the tricks of making every BP stretch (soft-maxing skillz ftw, take gymnastics or dodge, never both etc.), the best must-have gear (I'm looking at you FFBA) and so on. While it is a nice idea to make sure that a newb player is steered away from errors due to inexperience (whoops, you forgot perception; or as a better example the rigger with flying drones who took 5 ranks of pilot ground, and none of pilot aircraft), I'd rather they not be encouraged to make characters soley from the veiwpoint of utility.

And i would point out that most propably, most of them don't actually make those kind of uber character that are posted here when making a character for an actual game.
Those are just thought exercises to see what can be made and not something that is ment to be used in a game.

[Draco18s]

I still make mistakes myself, but I've gotten to the point at which I don't make mistakes during combat; I know how to use cover, I know how many bullets I can pelt at a target without taking penalties.

I still forget Perception (it's generally not the first thing on my mind when building characters), I still don't have a vague idea of what Knowledge skills I should have...

[Glyph]

I've noticed a couple of people saying that inexperienced players can learn some tricks from PCs generated by more experienced characters, and I can't think of anything worse.

Most Dumpshockers will be familiar with the tricks of making every BP stretch (soft-maxing skillz ftw, take gymnastics or dodge, never both etc.), the best must-have gear (I'm looking at you FFBA) and so on. While it is a nice idea to make sure that a newb player is steered away from errors due to inexperience (whoops, you forgot perception; or as a better example the rigger with flying drones who took 5 ranks of pilot ground, and none of pilot aircraft), I'd rather they not be encouraged to make characters soley from the veiwpoint of utility.

Personally, I think stats and roleplaying are two separate, unrelated items, and being good at one does not detract from being good at the other. A min-maxer who doesn't know the rules will just try to min-max and botch it. Someone who is a good roleplayer will still be a good roleplayer if his adept has 22 pistols dice. I agree that newbies shouldn't be bombarded with every min-maxing trick in the book from the experienced players, but no one here has advocated that.

[Fuchs]

Roleplayers unfamiliar with the SR rules can benefit a lot if their concept is not hobbled by their stats and skills, so advice is generally useful.

[Dream79]

If the players are new to Shadowrun, but have prior experience guidance is really all you need. I would likely start with a one-shot to give the players a introduction to the mechanics, game concept and setting, but otherwise I wouldn't worry to much. The biggest possible snag I could see is differences in playing style possibly causing a sort of culture clash.

If the players are new to RPGs or younger players with limited RP experience, I would have to make pregen runners for the players. Shadowrun has a pretty high learning curve for people new to RPGs entirely. Building open conceptual characters with points for a unique setting can be difficult to wrap your head around let alone basic roleplay concepts, rules and so on. Especially when you consider younger players who's experience may be limited to WoW.

[darthmord]

I made liberal use of character building advice from here when making my current character. While some of it was useful, other parts weren't. Not unexpected. But the useful advice was still very appreciated.

Yes, we can get away with some really twinky ass character designs here. But that's the point. It's a lesson in how things *CAN* be used to achieve certain goals. That is the useful knowledge that helps us all build characters that fit the concept we are intending.