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> Freeze Foam, Weaponized?
marinco
post Jan 31 2009, 05:18 AM
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So I am thinking that you could somehow put freeze-foam into a capsule grenade, since it is a liquid, but when exposed to air expands. Its rating would still apply to what armor level it has but what about distance at which it would be effective? Any ideas?
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TonkaTuff
post Jan 31 2009, 05:38 AM
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Tricky question, since they don't give any indication of how stored volume correlates to expanded volume. Since it starts to harden in contact with the air, maybe give it normal radius of a splash grenade (10m) and degrade the armor rating per meter to reflect the method of application. Spray-applied freeze foam is easy to maintain at an effective even density. But with the splash-effect, the farther-flung edges of the splash would likely have less volume and probably harden quicker, while the center of the effect would contain more foam and be subsequently thicker and better-able to immobilize those caught in it.
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Maelstrome
post Jan 31 2009, 06:19 AM
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i thought those already existed i know ive used them for awhile or maybe its a old homebrew.
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KarmaInferno
post Jan 31 2009, 06:37 AM
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Even worse: Alter freeze foam so it takes a minute or so before it hardens. Aerosolize it as a fine mist. Grenade goes off, people start wondering what this gas cloud is, and a minute later they start suffocating as it hardens in their lungs.

Even an air filtration system would have problems as the stuff hardens and clogs up the intakes.



-karma
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Maelstrome
post Jan 31 2009, 07:15 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 31 2009, 06:37 AM) *
Even worse: Alter freeze foam so it takes a minute or so before it hardens. Aerosolize it as a fine mist. Grenade goes off, people start wondering what this gas cloud is, and a minute later they start suffocating as it hardens in their lungs.

Even an air filtration system would have problems as the stuff hardens and clogs up the intakes.



-karma


thats some dangerous thinking right there. why didnt i think of that?
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Stahlseele
post Jan 31 2009, 10:50 AM
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been thought off beofre, if i remember correctly O.o
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hobgoblin
post Jan 31 2009, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 31 2009, 07:37 AM) *
Even worse: Alter freeze foam so it takes a minute or so before it hardens. Aerosolize it as a fine mist. Grenade goes off, people start wondering what this gas cloud is, and a minute later they start suffocating as it hardens in their lungs.

Even an air filtration system would have problems as the stuff hardens and clogs up the intakes.



-karma

check the arsenal text. its designed to be porous, so that it do not choke a potential target on deployment.

anyways, here is how is read freeze foam deployed via splash grenade.

1. it will instantly immobilize anyone within the radius of the splash.

2. the only thing a affected target can do is wait for help, or attempt unarmed combat damage towards foam.

so a freeze foam grenade or two can really mess up a runner team!
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Rad
post Jan 31 2009, 11:56 AM
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Or the guards of a certain bank in Honk Kong... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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hobgoblin
post Jan 31 2009, 12:17 PM
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any weapon works both ways (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Rad
post Jan 31 2009, 12:22 PM
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Actually, yeah--I got hit by a glue grenade this session, as the guy I was trying to hack up was retreating. In Hong Kong again, no less. Fortunately we have a chemistry lab on the skytrain, so they were able to whip up some universal solvent for me.
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marinco
post Jan 31 2009, 07:17 PM
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Okay, now lets say it works perfects and someone gets stuck in it

Would they roll strength vs. the foams structure/barrier rating (which is rating x 2)? I don't think unarmed would count just because they cannot really move enough to actually punch/kick/whatever

Then for someone trying to break through it, just normal unarmed against structure/barrier?
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AllTheNothing
post Jan 31 2009, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (marinco @ Jan 31 2009, 08:17 PM) *
Okay, now lets say it works perfects and someone gets stuck in it

Would they roll strength vs. the foams structure/barrier rating (which is rating x 2)? I don't think unarmed would count just because they cannot really move enough to actually punch/kick/whatever

Then for someone trying to break through it, just normal unarmed against structure/barrier?

The Freeze Foam (Arsenal p.82-83) has both structure and armor rating equal to its rating, for harming it in unarmed combat use the normal rules for destroying barriers; for breacking out of it I would use a BODY + STRENGHT test with a treshold of (rating), each net hit reduces the structure rating by 1.
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KarmaInferno
post Feb 1 2009, 03:28 PM
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The breaking barriers rules assume that you're physically free to do the breaking.

I'd have to imagine having no leverage to move would affect the situation somewhat.

Maybe modify the test by the successes of the initial grenade attack?


-karma
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AllTheNothing
post Feb 1 2009, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Feb 1 2009, 04:28 PM) *
The breaking barriers rules assume that you're physically free to do the breaking.

I'd have to imagine having no leverage to move would affect the situation somewhat.

Maybe modify the test by the successes of the initial grenade attack?


-karma

I said using rules for destroying barriers when using unarmed combat, which means that you are free to move; when you are trapped into the foam (no space for unarmed combat) you have to use brute strenght to break free, so I proposed an attribute only test (BBB p.130), and being pure brute strenght I thought that BODY + STRENGHT is the best option aviable.
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hobgoblin
post Feb 1 2009, 09:26 PM
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would make it interesting to try and stop a cybered up troll then (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

but yes, such a test makes a fair bit of sense.
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kigmatzomat
post Feb 1 2009, 10:16 PM
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We treat our house freeze foam grenades as single-target immobilizers creating a 1m diameter ball of foam. The limited radius means they have to be targeted, allowing the target to dodge. Successes add to the rating of the foam (after reductions for deviation) which are opposed by Strength + Escape Artist. A poor hit may merely catch an arm or leg while a solid hit will engulf all the major joints.

They are pretty effective against any medium or smaller airborne drone since any decent hit almost always gets into the rotors/jets. Ground vehicles aren't quite so easily immobilized but this is fantabulous for taking out souped up milspec armor.

We've made areosol solvent grenades that can be wireless activated to get us loose if something goes wrong.
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AllTheNothing
post Feb 1 2009, 11:01 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 1 2009, 10:26 PM) *
would make it interesting to try and stop a cybered up troll then (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

but yes, such a test makes a fair bit of sense.

It's foam not concrete it can stop effectively human or an elf, it will be less effective against dwarves and even less against orks, trolls will require much more than some foam to be stopped; also consider that the structure rating is refered to a volume that has a suface of 1 m2 and a thickness of 10 cm, to stop a troll the foam will have to cover about 3 m2 and whoever uses it will want to have at least 1m thick layer of foam around the troll, so the troll will have to destroy a barrier that has a structure rating of (3 x 10 (1m : 10 cm) x rating) which means that a rating 6 foam (do you want to use anithing else?) will produce 180 structure rating of barrier; no way to stop a troll but you can slow him/her for sure.
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AllTheNothing
post Feb 1 2009, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Feb 1 2009, 11:16 PM) *
We treat our house freeze foam grenades as single-target immobilizers creating a 1m diameter ball of foam. The limited radius means they have to be targeted, allowing the target to dodge. Successes add to the rating of the foam (after reductions for deviation) which are opposed by Strength + Escape Artist. A poor hit may merely catch an arm or leg while a solid hit will engulf all the major joints.

They are pretty effective against any medium or smaller airborne drone since any decent hit almost always gets into the rotors/jets. Ground vehicles aren't quite so easily immobilized but this is fantabulous for taking out souped up milspec armor.

We've made areosol solvent grenades that can be wireless activated to get us loose if something goes wrong.

Well, the radius of splash granades is 10 m (which is fine for surfaces but is excessive for volumes) in my games the foam granades have a radius in meters equal to the rating of the foam, the foam rating will start at maximum near the granade and will degrade by one each meter away from it.
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kigmatzomat
post Feb 2 2009, 03:11 AM
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QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Feb 1 2009, 06:47 PM) *
Well, the radius of splash granades is 10 m (which is fine for surfaces but is excessive for volumes) in my games the foam granades have a radius in meters equal to the rating of the foam, the foam rating will start at maximum near the granade and will degrade by one each meter away from it.


I'm not sure I agree with the rating doubling up for both strength and radius. I'd say you could either have high rated foam have a big radius with weak matrix or a strong matrix and a small radius. I suppose you could configure the grenade as a variable burst with radius x strength = rating. It all comes down to nozzle diameter, wide nozzle means small ball, tight nozzles give larger ball.
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