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Chrysalis
post Feb 1 2009, 12:44 AM
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Greets,

I was looking through some old RPG books I have, which included ones by Dark Conspiracy. I was thinking what would it be like to include monstrous technology into Shadowrun. To have more mundane horrors as part of the urban landscape.

How would you feel about having items that were twisted and wrong and had background counts. Highly sophisiticated computers made from slides of human brain. Drugs that were distilled from humans tortured to death. Cadavers reanimated with technology. Creatures that prey on shadowrunners.

This would a be world where the horrors had won and Shadowrunners just did not know about it.
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The Jake
post Feb 1 2009, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 12:44 AM) *
Greets,

I was looking through some old RPG books I have, which included ones by Dark Conspiracy. I was thinking what would it be like to include monstrous technology into Shadowrun. To have more mundane horrors as part of the urban landscape.

How would you feel about having items that were twisted and wrong and had background counts. Highly sophisiticated computers made from slides of human brain. Drugs that were distilled from humans tortured to death. Cadavers reanimated with technology. Creatures that prey on shadowrunners.

This would a be world where the horrors had won and Shadowrunners just did not know about it.


I believe the game you are after is CthuluTech.

- J.
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BlueMax
post Feb 1 2009, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jan 31 2009, 04:44 PM) *
Greets,

I was looking through some old RPG books I have, which included ones by Dark Conspiracy. I was thinking what would it be like to include monstrous technology into Shadowrun. To have more mundane horrors as part of the urban landscape.

How would you feel about having items that were twisted and wrong and had background counts. Highly sophisiticated computers made from slides of human brain. Drugs that were distilled from humans tortured to death. Cadavers reanimated with technology. Creatures that prey on shadowrunners.

This would a be world where the horrors had won and Shadowrunners just did not know about it.


I feel that all of those things would be good. For a year I ran a campaign for the Legend of the Five Rings Roleplaying game where Fu Leng had won and taken over. It was fun and challenging for everyone.

Those computers you speak of, the sophisticated ones.... I hear you need to head to Mexico City. [ Apologies for not spelling it the Azzie way ] Actually, this could be a Mexico City campaign. Really, its not too far off from an utter hell.
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Rad
post Feb 1 2009, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Jan 31 2009, 04:53 PM) *
I believe the game you are after is CthuluTech.

- J.


Indeed. Hell, she's already named after the mega that's secretly controlled by Nyarlahotep, one of the great Old Ones. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Chrysalis
post Feb 1 2009, 01:12 AM
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Cthulhu is an unknowable horror. Cthulhu does not inspire horror anymore, just a stream of bad jokes.

It is also so last century.

What about porting some of the technology from Dark Conspiracy directly into Shadowrun?
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Dr Funfrock
post Feb 1 2009, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Jan 31 2009, 07:53 PM) *
I believe the game you are after is CthuluTech.


I believe all of those things already exist in Shadowrun, or are perfectly plausible in the setting. The Horrors need not have already won for this to be the case.

I'd like to point out that reanimated corpses with background counts exist. They're called Cyberzombies, remember?
Everything else listed is just more in the same vein.

Honestly, if you want to run horror in Shadowrun, you don't have to change the setting in the slightest to do it. Just work with what's there.
For inspiration, get your hands on Threats 1 & 2. The chapter on Winternight, in particular, is utterly chilling. Completely mundane horror, inspired by nothing more than people with absolutely no sense of mercy or remorse.

There are facilities where Ares is experimenting with dogs inhabited by insect spirits. There are the dark blood magic rites of Aztechnology, and the shadowed halls of the Renraku Archology where some of Deus' secrets might still lie buried. Kept far from any watchful eye there are secret facilities where the megacorps perform horrific experiments. MCT keeps entirely automated lockdowns with not a single living being inside. There are deep sea arcologies, deep space facilities, bases on the Moon and on Mars. There are, in short, endless opportunities in Shadowrun to scare the living hell out of your players. It's all just about building up atmosphere, about emphasising the darker side of what is happening every day around them. Look at the descriptions of what happened to the Technomancers in Emergence. Imagine your players actually discovering something like that for the first time. Ordinary people, men, women, and children, with their brains cut open, probes pushed through their skin, layers of scars where they've been cut into again and again and again.

It's just about how you play it.
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AllTheNothing
post Feb 1 2009, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:44 AM) *
Greets,

Hi.



QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:44 AM) *
I was looking through some old RPG books I have, which included ones by Dark Conspiracy. I was thinking what would it be like to include monstrous technology into Shadowrun. To have more mundane horrors as part of the urban landscape.

Serial killers? Human suprematists that kidnap and torture meta? Slaver that put up death matches? Are they mundane and horrible enough?



QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:44 AM) *
How would you feel about having items that were twisted and wrong and had background counts.

Inanimate object can't generate background, but can be impressed with strong feeling so they might feel wrong when handled (an atzlander priest's knife?).



QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:44 AM) *
Highly sophisiticated computers made from slides of human brain.

That doctor that experimented on technomancer (the one that in the 3rd ed kidnapped children to extrct their brains) could have unfinished projects that Mitsuhama is trying to complete.



QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:44 AM) *
Drugs that were distilled from humans tortured to death.

It shouldn't have background (at least untill it is still to be used) but a snuff BTL is "distilled" from deaths.



QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:44 AM) *
Cadavers reanimated with technology.

Cybermancy? Otherwise an Otomo will do much better than a cadaver.



QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:44 AM) *
Creatures that prey on shadowrunners.

Why should they chose shadowrunners? Anyway anything that preys on or attemptes to kill metahumans (including other metahumans) should do.



QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 01:44 AM) *
This would a be world where the horrors had won and Shadowrunners just did not know about it.

Not to brust your boubble but if the horrors are going to win they are going to wipe out all the life from the world in a rather horrible way. However one of the parts of Harlequim's Back metaplanar quest tooke place in a reality that followed the invasion of the horrors (something like Earthdawn immediatly after the kaer were opened).

Bottom line: SR can be made much darker just using existing material.
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AllTheNothing
post Feb 1 2009, 01:33 AM
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QUOTE (Dr Funfrock @ Feb 1 2009, 02:20 AM) *
I believe all of those things already exist in Shadowrun, or are perfectly plausible in the setting. The Horrors need not have already won for this to be the case.

I'd like to point out that reanimated corpses with background counts exist. They're called Cyberzombies, remember?
Everything else listed is just more in the same vein.

Honestly, if you want to run horror in Shadowrun, you don't have to change the setting in the slightest to do it. Just work with what's there.
For inspiration, get your hands on Threats 1 & 2. The chapter on Winternight, in particular, is utterly chilling. Completely mundane horror, inspired by nothing more than people with absolutely no sense of mercy or remorse.

There are facilities where Ares is experimenting with dogs inhabited by insect spirits. There are the dark blood magic rites of Aztechnology, and the shadowed halls of the Renraku Archology where some of Deus' secrets might still lie buried. Kept far from any watchful eye there are secret facilities where the megacorps perform horrific experiments. MCT keeps entirely automated lockdowns with not a single living being inside. There are deep sea arcologies, deep space facilities, bases on the Moon and on Mars. There are, in short, endless opportunities in Shadowrun to scare the living hell out of your players. It's all just about building up atmosphere, about emphasising the darker side of what is happening every day around them. Look at the descriptions of what happened to the Technomancers in Emergence. Imagine your players actually discovering something like that for the first time. Ordinary people, men, women, and children, with their brains cut open, probes pushed through their skin, layers of scars where they've been cut into again and again and again.

It's just about how you play it.

The doctor tiped faster than me.
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Maelstrome
post Feb 1 2009, 03:33 AM
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as far as the twisted being and tech goes. i created the rules for the baroque. twisted anomalies in the world that drained essence and could create ware into/from there bodies.

i created the baroque as a kind of horror aspect in the world.

might not be what you are looking for but its worth a shot.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...&hl=baroque

ive finished my rules, not everything is in that thread. if you are interested message me.
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Crusher Bob
post Feb 1 2009, 04:04 AM
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Did you mean introducing certain horror tropes into SR, leading you to something like Dog Soldiers?

Or did you mean adding rules to reflect the world impact on the minds of the characters (e.g. Unknown armies)?

Or changing the tones and themes of the game (Conspiracy X or Delta Green in the world of SR?)

Or changing the mechanics of SR so that it is more conductive to telling horror style stories (for example, adapting some of the rules for Afraid?)
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nezumi
post Feb 1 2009, 04:47 AM
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I think those suggestions are very, very cool. Have you given any more concrete thought to it? What it would look like mechanics-wise? How it would change the world? Or are you just tossing the suggestion out there?
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Hagga
post Feb 1 2009, 07:18 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Feb 1 2009, 12:53 AM) *
I believe the game you are after is CthuluTech.

- J.

Some of those things look like they've escaped from my nightmares after a particularly heavy day at the gym.
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JeffSz
post Feb 1 2009, 07:33 AM
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QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Jan 31 2009, 11:04 PM) *
Or changing the tones and themes of the game (Conspiracy X or Delta Green in the world of SR?)


Oooo, Delta Green + Shadowrun would be the best game ever.


QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jan 31 2009, 08:12 PM) *
Cthulhu is an unknowable horror. Cthulhu does not inspire horror anymore, just a stream of bad jokes.

It is also so last century.


"Cthulhu" specifically is over exposed in jokes, yes, but as a Keeper for Call of Cthulhu I will say: there is some freaky sh** in that game.

Cthulhoid horror is definitely not out of style or stale - not even close. It's just a matter of getting past the cute Cthulhu plush dolls and Cowthulhu t-shirts.

Check out "Delta Green" (regarded widely as the best roleplaying supplement ever written for any game) on wikipedia, or the campaign "Masks of Nyarlathotep" (regarded widely as the best roleplaying campaign ever written for any game). Consider the fact that, while excellent games such as Shadowrun are very well done for an RPG, CoC is based so heavily in literature (and it's fan-base and writer-base comes to the game with that mindset) that the material produced for it is, by and large, more suited to telling excellent stories than any other RPG out there.

A homebrew marriage of SR to Cthulhu (done well) would tickle me pink, I think.

CthulhuTech specifically...maybe not.
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HentaiZonga
post Feb 1 2009, 07:42 AM
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Actually, Delta Green has some rather nice canonical precedent in SR: the Draco Foundation.

After Big D sacrificed himself to keep The Enemy from crossing over, the Draco Foundation carries on in his name. The "Delta Green" equivalent could be elite teams of Shadowrunners kept on retainer by the Draco Foundation as deniable assets, whose job it is to ferret out tools and minions of the Horrors and destroy them, to help stem the tide before the Enemy returns in force.
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JeffSz
post Feb 1 2009, 07:57 AM
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QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ Feb 1 2009, 02:42 AM) *
Actually, Delta Green has some rather nice canonical precedent in SR: the Draco Foundation.

After Big D sacrificed himself to keep The Enemy from crossing over, the Draco Foundation carries on in his name. The "Delta Green" equivalent could be elite teams of Shadowrunners kept on retainer by the Draco Foundation as deniable assets, whose job it is to ferret out tools and minions of the Horrors and destroy them, to help stem the tide before the Enemy returns in force.



*Jaw drops*

What old books are the Draco Foundation mentioned in?? And the Enemy etc.?
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Chrysalis
post Feb 1 2009, 08:39 AM
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QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Feb 1 2009, 06:04 AM) *
Did you mean introducing certain horror tropes into SR, leading you to something like Dog Soldiers?

Or did you mean adding rules to reflect the world impact on the minds of the characters (e.g. Unknown armies)?

Or changing the tones and themes of the game (Conspiracy X or Delta Green in the world of SR?)

Or changing the mechanics of SR so that it is more conductive to telling horror style stories (for example, adapting some of the rules for Afraid?)


I guess the thing is discovering that in a similar vein as the movie Soylent Green that certain basic foundations of the world rely on very horrific things. The corps have done their sacrifices to keep the modern world working and they have paid the too high price. It is the runners who slowly uncover how much part of the problem they are as part of the final solution. Will they continue to support horrors of the world in the name of luxury and progress.

This would see the runners going down a very dark path. Would they be willing to take a hit of tempo knowing that it would be a spirit pact which could kill them or make them invulnerable. Would they be willing to use nanotechnology, burying its way into the motor cortex of target slowly taking over the brain and personality of the target until the body itself collapses. Would they be willing to take cyberware that slowly starts turning them into something else.

The concept being really changing the tone and themes of the game (conspiracy X would be a good example of this, everything is in the shadows it is just too strange - outlandish even for the public to fathom).
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BlueMax
post Feb 1 2009, 08:59 AM
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QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Feb 1 2009, 12:39 AM) *
The concept being really changing the tone and themes of the game (conspiracy X would be a good example of this, everything is in the shadows it is just too strange - outlandish even for the public to fathom).


When I first started running, this statement held true. 2050, pre UB, pre Chicago, pre D for Pres. IE's and as mentioned above Aztlan. Shadowrun is a pretty great game, you can run whatever strikes your fancy and somewhere its already there.

Just don't tell Dumpshock (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Chrysalis
post Feb 1 2009, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (BlueMax @ Feb 1 2009, 10:59 AM) *
When I first started running, this statement held true. 2050, pre UB, pre Chicago, pre D for Pres. IE's and as mentioned above Aztlan. Shadowrun is a pretty great game, you can run whatever strikes your fancy and somewhere its already there.

Just don't tell Dumpshock (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



Isn't that the truth.
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Beetle
post Feb 1 2009, 01:05 PM
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QUOTE (JeffSz @ Feb 1 2009, 02:57 AM) *
*Jaw drops*

What old books are the Draco Foundation mentioned in?? And the Enemy etc.?

Books that I can think of off the top of my head are Portfolio of a Dragon, and Dragons of the Sixth World.
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Mickle5125
post Feb 1 2009, 04:52 PM
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If you're looking for horror based SR, I suggest looking up Khadim Nasser's Shadowrun adventure, Carnival.
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Anna Molly
post Feb 2 2009, 08:09 AM
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I'm new to SR, but a huge D&D junkie. There's a good book called Heroes of Horror about incorporating horror into a campaign with concepts and snippets that can easily be applied to any system, SR included. Obviously the technological aspect isn't there, but it could be added with a small degree of effort. It's usually easy to find cheap used copies for about $5 online, and it's well worth that.

... and now I need to go find some of the Shadowrun books mentioned here to compare and contrast them to my horror book. *shakes fist at all the ups and downs of learning a new system*
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JeffSz
post Feb 2 2009, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE (Anna Molly @ Feb 2 2009, 03:09 AM) *
I'm new to SR, but a huge D&D junkie. There's a good book called Heroes of Horror about incorporating horror into a campaign with concepts and snippets that can easily be applied to any system, SR included. Obviously the technological aspect isn't there, but it could be added with a small degree of effort. It's usually easy to find cheap used copies for about $5 online, and it's well worth that.

... and now I need to go find some of the Shadowrun books mentioned here to compare and contrast them to my horror book. *shakes fist at all the ups and downs of learning a new system*


Sadly, Heroes of Horror and other horror books for D&D tend to be more "here's stuff that should be scary, but it's so freaking cool, and YOU can use it as a player! how awesome is that?" or else "Here's stuff that should be scary, but it's so freaking fun to kill it all! Slaughter to your heart's content, because it's so darn dirty and evil!"

It's not actually "horror" if your players aren't frightened.

Edit: I just realized that might beg flaming; I'd like to note that I'm not saying D&D can't be scary, just that it's printed supplements don't present it that way and most GM's / players play "horror" wrong. It's certainly possible to make D&D scary as hell, even without "horror" supplements.

Example: PC's start at level 1 as a traveling troupe of Bards (yes, everyone is a bard in this example.) They show up in a medium-sized town. Nobody in the whole town will meet their eyes; gear bought here is at half cost, gear sold nets full value. the Inn gives free food and cheap drink. Everyone's wearing the same outfit, and nobody is wearing any shoes - their feet are black with dirt and dried blood. The PC with the highest Charisma bonus starts seeing shadowy figures out of the corner of his eye. That night, sleeping in a room at an inn, rented for a single copper piece, all the PC's sleep restlessly, with horrifying dreams of being hunted. The next morning, upon waking, they go downstairs only to find that everyone in the common room is sitting silently in their seats, stone dead. Only the innkeeper is still alive - and he's wiping the bar with a dirty rag, as if everything were just fine.

At that point, the PC with the highest Charisma bonus feels an intense pain in his stomach, and if he fails a willpower check (difficulty 15) he doubles over and begins shrieking.

That's much more "horror" than most things in published supplements. It's all in the GM's imagination and the players' too.
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Wesley Street
post Feb 2 2009, 03:57 PM
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You can also try screaming "Boogie-boogie-boo!" when your players get quiet... Or not.

Adapting elements of the horror genre is easy. But genuine horror is tricky to integrate into any role-playing game. It requires the complete participation of GM and player. Once the mood is broken, it's tough to get back into that "zone". I've never tried it myself and I'd be *ahem* scared to.
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JeffSz
post Feb 2 2009, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Feb 2 2009, 10:57 AM) *
You can also try screaming "Boogie-boogie-boo!" when your players get quiet... Or not.

Adapting elements of the horror genre is easy. But genuine horror is tricky to integrate into any role-playing game. It requires the complete participation of GM and player. Once the mood is broken, it's tough to get back into that "zone". I've never tried it myself and I'd be *ahem* scared to.



Shadowrun, while possible to make creepy, might not lend itself to horror very well.

After all, if you can't blow it up with a gauss rifle or assault cannon, your mage can probably geek it with an overcast Force 9 Manabolt. What's scary about that?

Then again, a colony of 8-year-old cannibal girls with preturnatural speed and grace, abnormally overdeveloped intelligence/cognizance, and claws, yet no speech and the ability to levitate... who are always silently crying... that could be fun.
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Wesley Street
post Feb 2 2009, 04:10 PM
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Good point. Horror works best when it combines the fear of the unknown, visceral imagery (like a little boy who buzzes like a hornet when he speaks), with overwhelming odds. Horror protagonists only survive through luck or grit, not tactics.

I just read the Chicago portion of Feral Cities. Having not read Bug City or really dealt with any of the Universal Brotherhood/insect spirit story-lines, I found the whole notion of maggots and people who are addicted to the alien thought processes of insects to be pretty terrifying. What would drive a person to say, "you know what? I think I'll give up my free will to become host to an alien being that wants to lay eggs and rip apart flesh with mandibles." That kind of thought process is "horror" to me. Treating an insect spirit or flesh form as a target to blast with an anti-equipment rifle isn't terrifying (Starship Troopers isn't horror... Alien is horror). Being dropped into a Butterfly hive in the Chicago Spire with only a knife and no map for escape is pretty damn frightening.
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