Dare I Say Attack of Opportunity?, Pulling a gun in a fist fight Options

[Red-ROM]

what are the rules about trying to shoot someone while in hand to hand combat. I'm sure I've played too much D&D, but can a mage stun bolt you while you're punching him in the face?

[Malachi]

Attempting ranged combat while in Melee gives the attacker a -3 Dice Pool penalty. It is up to the GM if this also applies to spellcasting or not. There are no attack of opportunity rules in SR, nor are there "spell interrupt" rules (to my knowledge).

In SR3 the "attacker in melee" penalty didn't exist (at least I don't remember it), so I had a House Rule that the attacker needed to succeed in a Melee Combat test just to be able to take the shot. The need for this has lessened a great deal in SR4 because the defender gets to roll their Reaction against the attack. I suppose an interesting House Rule (that I just thought of now) would be to let a melee character roll Reaction + Melee skill even when defending against a ranged attack against an opponent they have engaged in melee.

[Red-ROM]

yea, the - 3 is kind of off set by the +2 for point blank range. But I like the sound of the melee bonus for defense

[Critias]

In SR3 the "attacker in melee" penalty didn't exist (at least I don't remember it)...

There was a +2 TN per opponent, if you tried to use ranged combat while in melee with someone. It wasn't great, but it wasn't a dealbreaker, either. I can think of more than a few fights my characters stopped by jamming their pistol into an opponent's gut and smartlinking the trigger back a few times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Malachi]

There was a +2 TN per opponent, if you tried to use ranged combat while in melee with someone. It wasn't great, but it wasn't a dealbreaker, either. I can think of more than a few fights my characters stopped by jamming their pistol into an opponent's gut and smartlinking the trigger back a few times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

You know, I remember that one but I had always read it as +2 per additional opponent (beyond the first). The whole issue of being shot while in melee was a sore spot for one of my SR3 players who decided to play a melee character. I think melee characters are much more playable in SR4, which is a good thing.

Oh, and I would definitely not grant the +2 point blank bonus to the attacker if they have been engaged in melee. If two people are shooting each other at a range of under 1 meter, then sure, they can both go nuts. However, granting the +2 back to the attacker (netting only -1) so that the poor melee character gets shot again isn't a good scene. I suspect that +2 point-blank was thrown in to alleviate the "Agility 1 with gun taped to the head" "thing" that some people had.

[Roy Fokker]

don't you get an AOO when someone moves past you (within your reach) and they don't engage you?

[pbangarth]

don't you get an AOO when someone moves past you (within your reach) and they don't engage you?

SR4, p. 151. It's called Interception, and is a melee attack.

[InfinityzeN]

I suppose an interesting House Rule (that I just thought of now) would be to let a melee character roll Reaction + Melee skill even when defending against a ranged attack against an opponent they have engaged in melee.

Not a house rule. If the target is within melee range, you can defend with your unarmed or weapon skill, representing you knocking their weapon aside.

[Aaron]

Not a house rule. If the target is within melee range, you can defend with your unarmed or weapon skill, representing you knocking their weapon aside.

To be fair, I only skimmed, but I couldn't find where the rules say that. Could I bother you for a page reference?

[Red-ROM]

is that using full dodge?

[Dumori]

yea, the - 3 is kind of off set by the +2 for point blank range. But I like the sound of the melee bonus for defense

No you dont the the +2 in melee.

[Wizard]

To be fair, I only skimmed, but I couldn't find where the rules say that. Could I bother you for a page reference?

I did a search and could not find anything. The closest I came was on page 141:

Attacker in Melee Combat
If the attacker is attempting to conduct a ranged attack
while engaged in melee combat, or if he is aware of another
character trying to block his attack within two meters of him,
the attack suffers a –3 modifier.


It implies that you can block an attack.

Also on page 161 or Arsenal it says that the +2 Target Point Blank modifier can be offset by the -3 Attacker in Melee Combat modifier. So overall the attacker gets a -1 modifier when he shoots at someone he is in melee combat with.

[The Jake]

Attacks of Opportunity do not exist in SR4 (thank god for that). The closest comparison is an Interrupt action - which flows much more smoothly and effortlessly than the shitty AoO rules of D&D.

- J.