Vampire Cyberware, Dev help please? Options

[JFixer]

Okay, searching for vampire, or vampire cyberware was of no help on this front.

I have a character. He has cyberware/bioware augmentation (not so much as a scrap of Betaware) down to Essence 2, he gets turned into a vampire.

What is his essence now? What is his maximum essence? Does he have a point of magic or not? We know he can now only receive Delta Grade implants, but what about his old implants?

What ABOUT the Type-O quality and bioware?

[Glyph]

His Essense would be 1, since becoming Infected costs a metahuman a point of Essense (he will also start out with a Magic of 1). He will lose any non-deltaware implants, but can get 'ware to fill the Essense hole. Standard bioware taken with the Type O positive quality is functionally deltaware, so I would lean towards letting the character keep it. Note that this quality does not apply to cultured bioware, which, like cyberware, must be taken at delta grade.

[JFixer]

So if he had Cyberware forearms...

[Matsci]

So if he had Cyberware forearms...

If they weren't Delta, he grew new Forearms.

[JFixer]

Okay. Where do we see the rule on 'rejecting old cyberware and growing new ones', or is this simply off the ruling in RC about 'Deltaware only for regenerating infected'? it /was/ paid for with essence before the infection.

[Glyph]

So? The rules aren't ambiguous in any way. Vampires can only accept deltaware, because of their regeneration ability. There is no exception listed for pre-implanted cyberware, so the general consensus is that it gets violently rejected from the body (this was more explicitly stated in previous editions).

[Jaid]

just for the record, i wouldn't allow type O to work for an infected. the reason you need deltaware is not because the proteins don't match, but because there isn't any off-the shelf vampire 'ware to install. you are essentially designing the 'ware from the ground up, because there aren't really standardized plans for vampire 'ware, and as a result the 'ware you get is pretty much going to be designed just for you, and will therefore (as a result be deltaware).

this is why there is an optional rule for more common 'ware for critters (AFAICT); essentially, in those cases, the GM is ruling that the combination of that type of 'ware with that type of critter is common enough that you don't have to design the 'ware just for that individual because someone has actually designed more generic 'ware for that particular species.

so for example, it's probably reasonable to suppose that in one of the naga kingdoms (over in cambodia, i think?) someone has designed some more common cyberware and bioware for nagas. so if you were to take a naga character over to the naga kingdoms, you could probably reasonably expect that, say, datajacks, implanted commlinks, cybereyes/ears, implanted sim modules, and other more common 'ware has been developed to the point that there are trained doctors to implant them (and of course shadow doctors, who may or may not be trained...) and companies that produce off-the-rack implants for nagas.

[JFixer]

Cool! Now then..

'Natural Essence' refers to the regular limit of 12, yes? This reduced Vampire, if he is loaded with bioware, is he paying double as per his doubled essence? So 2.1 essence cost of deltaware costs him 6 off his essence cap of twelve?

What about his magic?

[The Jake]

just for the record, i wouldn't allow type O to work for an infected. the reason you need deltaware is not because the proteins don't match, but because there isn't any off-the shelf vampire 'ware to install. you are essentially designing the 'ware from the ground up, because there aren't really standardized plans for vampire 'ware, and as a result the 'ware you get is pretty much going to be designed just for you, and will therefore (as a result be deltaware).

To say nothing of the fact that Type O quality + metahuman with Regeneration = endless pot of gold in the right markets....

- J.

[JFixer]

O.O

Wonder if I could sell my own?

Non-Infectious?

[Jaid]

O.O

Wonder if I could sell my own?

Non-Infectious?

the strain of HMHVV that produces vampires can only infect people who have been drained to 0 essence and are in the process of dying. so, strictly speaking, any bioware you pulled from a vampire would not be infectious, unless you had a vampire surgeon who drains the subject to zero essence as they are implanting the 'ware (which, while kinda creepy, kinda defeats the point, since the vampire would at that point be directly infecting the subject).

also, the 'ware wouldn't actually be implantable into a normal human anyways, because it would be vampire 'ware.

[Hagga]

I wonder what a vampire cyberzombie would look like in terms of stats.

Humm. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[JFixer]

Regular Organs, Jaid. Also, you're mistaken. You're talking about Critter Ware.
Vampires are NOT critters. They're Infected. Essentially human in all respects.

[Jaid]

no, they aren't really human any more. humans don't regenerate, don't have to suck the life force/pattern out of other people, don't procreate by killing other people through the process of sucking out their lifeforce and/or depatternizing them, can't turn into mist, aren't immortal, aren't allergic to sunlight and wood (as a race, though specific individuals may be) and in general simply aren't vampires.

hate to break it to you, but a vampire is most definitely *not* a human. you change that much about something, and it ceases to be the same type of creature. we're pretty firmly in "magically modified on a genetic level into a completely different creature" territory.

[raggedhalo]

Note that this quality does not apply to cultured bioware, which, like cyberware, must be taken at delta grade.

Not IIRC. You can buy cultured bioware in any of the grades (standard, alpha, beta and delta) aware to other modifications.

[GreyBrother]

Jaid: Wasn't Shadowrun more along the lines "Vampires and Ghouls are just sick humans."?

[Stahlseele]

Isn't HMHVV more or less the most invasive gene-therapy ever?
And the Fanbase is pretty much divided on the Vampire-Stuff . . Ghouls, yes, Sick Humans, but Vampires?
they differ too far from normal, they simply can't be the same . . also, wasn't there that bit about dieing?

[Jaid]

Not IIRC. You can buy cultured bioware in any of the grades (standard, alpha, beta and delta) aware to other modifications.

not as a vampire, you can't. type O doesn't apply to cultured bioware because it is never off-the rack.

now then, on to vampires as sick humans: no, not really. ghouls, maybe, but even then probably not quite. look at it this way: elves, orks, trolls, and dwarves are all somewhat different from humans. but ultimately, they have a heck of a lot in common: similar diets, similar activity cycle, they heal at the same rate, same basic shape, etc.

vampires have changed to the point where they require blood from other creatures to survive. they can simply cease to have a humanoid form and turn into mist. they regenerate. their activity cycles changes from diurnal to nocturnal. the changes are simply too great for them to be a normal human. i don't know exactly what problems you might encounter if you had an organ that steals your blood and essence, may randomly turn into mist, and regenerates replacing your natural one, but i can't imagine it's gonna be pleasant.

[Starmage21]

I am pretty sure that any cyber implanted before the infection stays, and anything new is required to be of delta grade. Let me look it up to be sure.

[Glyph]

The rules say nothing to indicate the former (unless it's tucked away somewhere other than the main section on infected).

[Starmage21]

The rules say nothing to indicate the former (unless it's tucked away somewhere other than the main section on infected).

Under previous editions cyber was never forced out, so we can start there for some anecdotal evidence, and then go into the rest of the infected sections, none of which say what you assume happens, actually happens. It only says specifically that the infected that regenerate cant get any new augmentations. Additionally, the transformation under the "Infection In Play" on page 83 of Runner's Companion also says nothing about augmentations. Just that they wake up after 30-Body hours as a whatever.

[Stahlseele]

whyt did you smoke?
under 3rd ed regeneration it stated pretty clearly, that cyber was forcibly ejected from the body . .
only with ghouls certain cyber stayed in and bio was absorbed and most cyber in there would have to be repaired after the fact . . if the now doubled essence loss did not simpy kill you deader . .

[Starmage21]

whyt did you smoke?
under 3rd ed regeneration it stated pretty clearly, that cyber was forcibly ejected from the body . .
only with ghouls certain cyber stayed in and bio was absorbed and most cyber in there would have to be repaired after the fact . . if the now doubled essence loss did not simpy kill you deader . .

Probobly what I was thinking of Stahlseele. Guess I'm wrong.

[Stahlseele]

eh it happens . . <racist>those HMHVVTypes all look the same to me>/racist>

[JFixer]

Next Question:
I have installed Cyberware. After transformation I have a magic of one, but a lowered magic cap. Raising my magic to two will cost me 6karma. If I then install enough bioware to lose a point of magic, does it cost me 6karma to raise it back to 2, or does it now cost me 9karma to raise it back to 2?