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> Initiate grades, treatment of the Awakened and how common they are.
Hagga
post Feb 19 2009, 10:53 AM
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I asked in a previous thread, that was somewhat related, in a hope of not having to make a new one. No answers, so I thought I'd try here:

Magical strength and grades of initiation, obviously, are not the same. How common is it for an initiate mage to be running around? And the further question - how common is it for the various grades? In Street Magic, there is a grade 5 initiate at the peak of his power - 11 magic. He's in Saeder Krupp's moonbase. How would corps and nations react to him? What if he wasn't employed by a corp, but just ran an enchanting shop? Or was a crime lord in some godforsaken slum?

What about, (my original question) those who make the Lord Protector look like a sickly little girl? People who have done *nothing* but study magic since the start of the Sixth World and are sitting around with grades of 15, 20, 25 with magic at peak potential? How is the world likely to react to these if they are corp or government employed? And worse, those who *aren't* but are independent? I can't help but imagine lynch mobs, or a gauss cannon to the skull at point blank range "Just to be sure", for all three. It's fairly monstrous, after all. (Yes, I know statted dragons have magic that is sitting around 12. Let's face it - that's ridiculous. Given that all the adult dragons were hatched in the previous Age, they're going to have grades of *gulp*.)
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Synner667
post Feb 19 2009, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Feb 19 2009, 10:53 AM) *
I asked in a previous thread, that was somewhat related, in a hope of not having to make a new one. No answers, so I thought I'd try here:

Magical strength and grades of initiation, obviously, are not the same. How common is it for an initiate mage to be running around? And the further question - how common is it for the various grades? In Street Magic, there is a grade 5 initiate at the peak of his power - 11 magic. He's in Saeder Krupp's moonbase. How would corps and nations react to him? What if he wasn't employed by a corp, but just ran an enchanting shop? Or was a crime lord in some godforsaken slum?

What about, (my original question) those who make the Lord Protector look like a sickly little girl? People who have done *nothing* but study magic since the start of the Sixth World and are sitting around with grades of 15, 20, 25 with magic at peak potential? How is the world likely to react to these if they are corp or government employed? And worse, those who *aren't* but are independent? I can't help but imagine lynch mobs, or a gauss cannon to the skull at point blank range "Just to be sure", for all three. It's fairly monstrous, after all. (Yes, I know statted dragons have magic that is sitting around 12. Let's face it - that's ridiculous. Given that all the adult dragons were hatched in the previous Age, they're going to have grades of *gulp*.)

As with anything that relates to degrees of power/skill/etc, it should be a steep pyramid...
...The higher you go, the fewer there should be.

People like the Lord Protector should be near the top of the pyramid, by virtue of their access to training, their access to mentors, their access to materials, etc...
...If there are lots of people without those resources, but at his level of power, I think there's something wrong.

Similarly, if Dragons don't have Magic Ratings and Initiate Grades of <stupid number>, then there's an issue [as you say - thousands of years old, life devoted to magic, etc]...
...Either they should have Magic Ratings and Initiate Grade of something ridiculous [which doesn't seem to be the case], or it should be much harder to get to those levels - almost exponentially more difficult, the higher you go, and not just in terms of karma/build point terms.

But then SR [or any game, really] isn't really geared up for characters who are thousands of years old, especially not when they have to interact with non-millennia year olds - look at their handling of people like Harlequin.

Why would there be lynchmobs just for high power Characters ??
Can you, as a blunt, tell who has a high Magic Rating - unless you see them cast a spell ?? Do you know the difference between MR 1 and MR 20, as a person in the street ?? If there are lynchmobs, surely they'd hunt all magic users ??

All the more reason things, resources and materials would watched, limited or just not available.
The requirements for anything above "normal" high level characters would be things that are a quest on their own, things that are are most likely rare or almost impossible to find - and probably not related to money - materials, knowledge, mentor, etc.

Like now - if you do searches on certain topics, the various security organisations are aware, and they will investigate.
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ornot
post Feb 19 2009, 11:14 AM
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I don't think that an initiates grade would necessarily become common knowledge. How many top flight scientists can you name today? Most corps wouldn't care, so long as they weren't impacting the bottom line, and most governments have more important things to worry about, such as maintaining soveriegnty in a continual global cold war. If someone is that powerful they're either a powerplayer themselves, or under the control of someone who is a powerplayer.

Ultimately it's moot, since how you view the 6th world is entirely under your own control. My personal opinion is that the PCs shouldn't meet anyone like that, except as some kind of deus ex machina character. Ultimately they should be preoccupied with factors far beyond the PCs' scope, and principally involved in maintaining the status quo.
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Hagga
post Feb 19 2009, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE (Synner667 @ Feb 19 2009, 11:09 AM) *
As with anything that relates to degrees of power/skill/etc, it should be a steep pyramid...
...The higher you go, the fewer there should be.

People like the Lord Protector should be near the top of the pyramid, by virtue of their access to training, their access to mentors, their access to materials, etc...
...If there are lots of people without those resources, but at his level of power, I think there's something wrong.
There aren't, though. There might be someone higher running around (See initiate grade of <stupid number> and <gulp>, but as stated - that person would have been kicking around since the Awakening and be getting ready to die. To reach that sort of ability he'd probably be corrupt and riddled through with spirit pacts.

Similarly, if Dragons don't have Magic Ratings and Initiate Grades of <stupid number>, then there's an issue [as you say - thousands of years old, life devoted to magic, etc]...
...Either they should have Magic Ratings and Initiate Grade of something ridiculous [which doesn't seem to be the case], or it should be much harder to get to those levels - almost exponentially more difficult, the higher you go, and not just in terms of karma/build point terms.
The higher you go, the karma cost is. I've never played anything with an initiate grade higher than 4, and that took an incredible amount of karma scrimping to manage. Obviously this is unlike to be players - again, like the fluff threads and the logic threads, perverse curiousity and a desire to know more about how the world *works*.

Why would there be lynchmobs just for high power Characters ??
Can you, as a blunt, tell who has a high Magic Rating - unless you see them cast a spell ?? Do you know the difference between MR 1 and MR 20, as a person in the street ?? If there are lynchmobs, surely they'd hunt all magic users ??
No - I don't think anyone would, and someone like that probably isn't going to wander around unmasked. Lynch mobs were, perhaps, a bad example, but I'm thinking more along the night of rage and other things. Someone at that level isn't human anymore, just like a Technomancerwith that grade is more along the lines of a walking Resonance node. People are going to react badly.

All the more reason things, resources and materials would watched, limited or just not available.
The requirements for anything above "normal" high level characters would be things that are a quest on their own, things that are are most likely rare or almost impossible to find - and probably not related to money - materials, knowledge, mentor, etc.
Yeah. At that level you almost certainly need a mentor spirit or a draconic tutor. While I wouldn't mind knowing about that (Not to mention the Technomancer equivalent), it's sort of something that you can't even expand on - there just isn't enough information. Even the little available on higher grade initiates in fluff is *there*, but I've never seen anything on, to borrow a term, "the higher mysteries".


QUOTE
I don't think that an initiates grade would necessarily become common knowledge. How many top flight scientists can you name today? Most corps wouldn't care, so long as they weren't impacting the bottom line, and most governments have more important things to worry about, such as maintaining soveriegnty in a continual global cold war. If someone is that powerful they're either a powerplayer themselves, or under the control of someone who is a powerplayer.
So corps and government aren't likely to try a bit of kidnapping and brainwashing, just to see if they can manage it while keeping the awakened whatever docile?


That said, how common are the various grades likely to be? And how are they going to react to knowing that, say, that grade 5 researcher is wandering around after for some god-only-knows reason unemployed, if there is anything aside from drooling and lining up extraction team after extraction team?
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Cadmus
post Feb 19 2009, 12:12 PM
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Well for npc's it depends on your story,

For PC's eh, Look at the karma cost, I've never played a game where a player started with any grade, high magic sure but that was it no metamagics.

And ofcourse there are many ways to increase your grade so if your doing ordeals and following spirits and what not, well it might be less noticable then others. As well only another mage would know what grade you are any then only if he's good with assensing, Granted that is if you aren't masking your aura, Its like any skill. If your a Wiz at math or good enough to beat a NBA player one on one in basket ball. But never go to public try outs or apply to jobs or universitys, How many people are going to know how skillful you are?

As to how commen in general? I would say 1 2 and even 3 might be fairly commen, grade 2 and 3 on researchers and swat or military mages (milita?) People who would have a direct and clear need to increase there grade, a grade 5? I could see some high wiz researches like that yes, granted these guys would be pulling down a good paycheck no matter were but might be the types to care more for there work then for the power it gives them...or not, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But 1-3 I can see as being fairly comen, for normal mages 1 would not be that hard to get to start with, in street magic they even talk about public magical groups and all,

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Doc Byte
post Feb 19 2009, 01:03 PM
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One shouldn't forget that SR4 splits Initiaton Grade and Magic Attribute increase. So e.g. a grade 2 / magic 5 mage with - let's say - 4 Metamagic Techniques shouldn't be an uncommon sight.
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