 Random Questions, Or Pointless Ponderings |
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  Jan 8 2004, 05:14 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757  |
How much is a Metahuman worth? By Race, Gender, Age, Ethnicity?
(Currently working on a slaver's market / plotline for our Table group.) Would a huge plot arc with the end result of aquiring a magical relic be overpowering to the group/game? Can you become addicted to Magic? (A masochist becomming addicted to the Agony spell, or a headonist to a Pleasure spell -reverse of Agony-.) Can Someone help me design a side by side double barrel breech loaded sawed off shotgun? ( I don't have the CC ) If up were down, would left be right? What is the maximum distance you can levitate something? Are there any current day drug equivilents in SR? (I can't seem to find any mention of them in any book) Why can a troll Physad with a dikoted polearm weapon foci , close combat and a bunch of skill and armor take down a Dragon in straight physical combat? (Was a proposed character from one of my buddies) I'm sure I have more questiosn later but this is all I have right now. |
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Jan 8 2004, 05:27 PM
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#2
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not sure. Trolls are probably worth more right now, though the market is probably starting to realize that they die off relatively quickly and thus can be a comparatively poor long-term investment.
Depends. What does the relic do?
Don't see why not.
Damage 8S, Heavy Pistol ranges, Ammo 2 (BA), capable of firing a short burst if modified. Conceal. probably around 4 or so.
The enemy's gate is down, so it would just mean you are surrounded.
The maximum distance you can see the object at.
Not by canon, too much of a touchy subject. You can find rules around online in various places.
Because the dragon is helpless from laughing at the physad? Well, what kind of dragon? Great, or one of the smaller kinds? The latter aren't so impressive, and can be taken down for the same reason you can take down a troll. You just find a way to outclass them.
And I will doubtless still have nothing better to do. ~J |
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Jan 8 2004, 05:42 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 348 Joined: 20-June 03 Member No.: 4,782 |
I will use the history of north america colony slave trade as a reference.
The slaves were purchased "wholesale" from the evil ship owners that raided entire African villages. Only in this situation were slaves purchased at a set price. Men, women, and children were set at different prices. Now after the ships sold their "cargo", the slave traders auctioned them off. <--- I feel horrible just talking about this. Since they were auctioned-off, the prices were no longer set. Now they became individualized. The stronger and healthier the slave, usually the more money was bid for them. So using this example, it really depends on the situation. |
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Jan 8 2004, 07:58 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757 |
Trolls are crunchy. Probably best for hard labor.
Elfs are pretty. Probably best for Benraku Parlor. Orks are beefy. Probably best for brutal labor. Dwarfs are short. Probably best for air duct cleaning. Humans are normal. Probably best for butlers. Relic would be a inehaustable anchored foci Amulet that puts on Levitation force 5, Flame Aura force 5 and Armor force 5 When a little prayer is said. It'll have a nice curse in it of course. It attracts Imps like a beacon. Thanks for the gun specs!. Oh yes. Another random Question. Can paracritters choose the targets that are affected by thier abilities? Example security barghest in the middle of a room of security goons Runners barge in. Barghest howls. Does everyone get scared? |
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Jan 8 2004, 08:03 PM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
He can't. He died when the dragon mannabolted him... :P Seriously. Dragons can be killed by starting characters quite easily, the Grand Dragon ATGM is another example of how a legal character can take-out a dragon (and it's far cheaper than the 390k+ weapon focus). A Dragon's true power comes from the fact that he thinks about things, plans, and thus would have better ways to deal with the aforementioned troll than a straight punch-up... Of course there are dragons out there who would completely trounce that physad as they know Drac-Fu at rank 50. [/rant=" :wobble: "] |
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Jan 8 2004, 08:09 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
1. Depends on who's buying and why they want as well as quantity. If you want strong workers, skinny elf wenches aren't going to be in great demand. If you're running a white slavery gig, slender elf maidens will be valuable than the hulking trolls. If you've only got one troll in a country of humans, that troll is going to command a larger selling price. 2. Yes if left in play. Although lots of powerful figures would show an interest in such a massive artifact, leading to silly and possibly dangerous adventures. :grinbig: 3. Sure. For that matter, a mage or shaman could become addicted to casting spells just as easily as the target who becomes addicted to the "Instant Orgasm" spell. -Siege |
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Jan 8 2004, 08:16 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
I wish I knew Drac-Fu.
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Jan 8 2004, 08:28 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 24-November 02 Member No.: 3,638 |
Screw that, give me the insta-orgasm spell. :wobble: |
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Jan 8 2004, 09:17 PM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
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Jan 8 2004, 10:39 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,311 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Alberta Member No.: 2,062 |
I would like to state (in respone to the argument in the link) that it takes me more than 3 seconds (1 round) to bite right through a steak that is 1/20th my size, much less something with bones and stuff, like somebody's pet weasel. It would take me probably 12 seconds, minimum, to do the steaks, and probably 21, minimum, to do the weasel. That's 4 and 7 rounds. Granted, my teeth aren't as sharp as a dragons, but my jaw power is comparable for size. So, even cutting that in half, 2 to 4 rounds of bite attack seems reasonable to me. The only thing that needs to be adressed now is SRs sense of size-to-weight. Trolls should weight a ton, easily, and dragons a significantly larger amount than they do. |
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Jan 8 2004, 10:42 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 320 Joined: 13-August 02 From: Austin, Republic of Texas (not CAS) Member No.: 3,094 |
I always figured that Dragons were mostly hollow, like a bird, they may have tough skin, but the inards are open.
hollow bones and all that too... so I can see them being very light for there size/shape -Mike R |
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Jan 8 2004, 10:45 PM
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#12
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I really don't think Trolls would get up to a full ton. I mean, a mid-sized car only weighs what, slightly over half a ton?
~J |
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Jan 8 2004, 10:47 PM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
A 7-meter crocodile can grab a 500kg cow and throw it around like a rag doll. It doesn't kill it very fast, but it once the jaws close, it's just about counting the seconds. Now take something 4 times as long, and at least ~20 times as massive, ie about 20 times the power in the jaws. Face it off with 20kg of ballistic polymers (the human or troll inside should be insignificant at that point). See who wins. I admit that dragons certainly don't need to do more than Deadly. In some ways, just Serious might be enough. But the Power should be significantly higher, and the Body rating should be larger by a few orders of magnitude.
Very light for their size, sure. 1/10th the weight of a crocodile of the same size, hell no. Maybe a third or a fourth.
Nor do I. If a 280cm tall human would average 313kg, a troll probably shouldn't weigh more than 400-450kg. The one thing I think Patrick Goodman got "wrong" in How Much Did You Say He Weighed is that someone weighing 4.5 times as much as a human is already way stronger and can withstand way more punishment, so the full +4Str/+5Bod modifiers for weight shouldn't be neccessary. This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Jan 8 2004, 10:55 PM |
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Jan 8 2004, 10:49 PM
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#14
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
What is Dragon Strength again? All I remember is Western Great Dragons, which, being 50, provides a perfectly adequate Power for anything you should need up to and including some Naval-scale vessels.
~J |
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Jan 8 2004, 10:54 PM
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#15
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,317 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
*erm* what mid-sized car are you refering to? Even the first versions of the Volkswagen Golf (a small car by american standards) had a base weight of above 1000 kg. The Nissan Micra (don't know if it's called the same in the US) is a mini-car with 990 kg. |
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Jan 8 2004, 10:56 PM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
An average Western Dragon has a Strength of 40, Great has 50 like you said. But the Powers of their attacks are only 14 and 16, respectively. That's the problem.
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Jan 8 2004, 11:04 PM
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#17
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
It's like the old AD&D dragons that were the size of small buildings yet had really, really silly damage codes for their bite/claw/tail.
For frag's sake, if you're that big just step on the freaking troll. -Siege |
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Jan 8 2004, 11:07 PM
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#18
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Meep, actually doing some research is showing a vast underestimation on my part. You're right, closer to a ton for relatively compact cars. Still, I really don't see a troll being anywhere near the weight of a car. Well, except a smartcar, but a troll could carry a pair of those just in case.
~J |
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Jan 8 2004, 11:14 PM
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#19
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Well, like I said, trolls weighing a ton aren't very likely. But if you have a problem with 400kg trolls, then what you need to do is make trolls shorter, not just lighter. Just drop troll length to 230cm, keep the weight at 225kg and Bob's your uncle. |
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Jan 8 2004, 11:38 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 320 Joined: 13-August 02 From: Austin, Republic of Texas (not CAS) Member No.: 3,094 |
I could see a troll getting close to a 1000Kg.
We should probably be looking at other large animals for perspective, such as horses and cows. A Big Draft horse (Belguin, Soviet heavy draft)can come close to a 1000kg, and I could see a Troll being as massive as that. and I agree 1/4 would be more realistic than 1/10 for the dragon comment above. -Mike R. |
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Jan 8 2004, 11:45 PM
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#21
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Just come up with a figure of how much you think the average troll would weigh if it was only 170cm tall. Then multiply that by 4.5. If the average troll weighed 1000kg, that'd mean it'd weigh over 220kg/almost 500lbs it it was 170cm tall. And that's just too much. You could justify something as high as 800kg if you think they look more like gorillas than humans (and gorillas can weigh 180kg at 170cm).
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Jan 9 2004, 12:12 AM
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#22
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,317 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
I would suggest not to try to make such comparisons at all, since there is no canon material on tissue density for either meta-race or exact body proportions (and no the most canon drawings usually do not portray average trolls, but rather imprssive ones)
Just some numbers that show what I mean: An uprightstanding male polar bear can reach a height of up to 3 meters (2.5 meters being the average) with a weight of up to 750 kg (average 560 kg). A male walrus' average length is about 3 meters and its average weight is about 1300 kg A male gorilla reaches heights up to 2 meters (average being about 1,75 m) with weights up to 250 kg. Humans of the same height usually do not weigh significally more than 130 kg (Sumo wrestlers and other sportsmen in "weight" disciplines being the exception) |
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Jan 9 2004, 12:49 AM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
What's the difference between the tissue density of human muscle and gorilla muscle? Divide that difference by about 4, and you've got an error range. I'm guessing it's going to be pretty damn small. No, we don't know exact body proportions. But we DO know that a troll looks much more like a human than it does like a polar bear or a walrus. Bears, like all other quadrapeds, have torsos many times as large as those of a human of similar height (measured when standing on two legs). A walrus is basically one big torso from the neck down. A troll's head is relatively about the same size as a human's. It's legs are slightly shorter and arms longer than a human's, but both are far closer to human standards than ape. While many troll-pictures do portray extremely muscular arms, there are many other troll-pictures where the arms are no thicker than those of a very strong human (the BBB Troll Street Ganger for example). All pictures portray their torsos relatively slightly larger than humans' in most respects, but again far closer to human than gorilla. Unless you decide that Troll Flesh Is Maaaaaaaagic, you just can't get away with them weighing much more or less what the simple math gives us, which is maybe somewhere between 350kg and 600kg. |
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Jan 9 2004, 01:48 AM
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#24
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
:please: |
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Jan 9 2004, 01:52 AM
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#25
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Actually, a fair number of the raids were carried out by more powerful African tribes that stood to gain goods for other minor villages that weren't benefitting them in the least. In these cases the captains were just another middleman.
~J |
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