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> Statistic examples., We've got them for skills.
Hagga
post Feb 25 2009, 10:52 AM
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Page 108, core rulebook. Has anyone ever knocked out statistic versions of these, natural and into the "augmented" ranges? It'd help to puzzle out of it's a linear curve, a staggered line, etc.
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Hagga
post Feb 26 2009, 07:44 AM
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Perhaps to clarify, given the lack of response. 1 is weak, 2 is underdeveloped, 3 is average, 4 is above average, 5 is superior, 6 is the maximum unmodified human. So, at, say 6 strength, you've got muscle around that of an Olympic Powerlifter. At 4, a recreational weightlifter. 5, a powerlifter. 2, a skinny little emokid and 1 is the rough average for a child. What about beyond that? What for other statistics?
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Glyph
post Feb 26 2009, 08:39 AM
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I would say 1 is the lowest functional Attribute, although more undeveloped than, say, emaciated or developmentally disabled. I say this because a piddly 6 karma raises it to a 2. From there, I would say 2 is low-average, 3 is average/pretty good, 4-5 mean you use that Attribute on a fairly regular basis (a dockworker or something similar for Strength, an accountant or something similar for Logic, etc.). A 6 is the best that most people can get (naturally) - Strength of 6 means you're a gym rat, Logic of 6 means you use your brain creatively for a living, etc. 7 is for things like Olympic athletes or scientific researchers.

I prefer more general descriptions like that because, functionally, there is NOT a huge difference between an Attribute of 3 and one of 6 as far as dice pools go. So descriptions such as "Strength 1 is a small child, Strength 6 is a powerlifter" are too jarring - they don't fit the reality of how the game mechanics actually work. Honestly, I don't like how skills are described, either. For comparing how good someone is, overall dice pools are a much better indicator than base skill or Attribute ratings.

More rambling:
For metatypes, I wouldn't simply add the bonuses to the "average" for them. Just as you find more guys than girls who are less fit, because they are naturally stronger, you will probably have lots of orks and trolls who don't get past that 3 or 5 in Strength, because they don't have anything pushing them to improve.

Magic and technology really screw up the mix, but that's okay, because these "shortcuts" fit the transhumanist theme. You can be an average Joe, but because you got some 'ware, you can suddenly press more kilos than that bodybuilder.
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ElFenrir
post Feb 26 2009, 11:31 AM
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QUOTE
I prefer more general descriptions like that because, functionally, there is NOT a huge difference between an Attribute of 3 and one of 6 as far as dice pools go. So descriptions such as "Strength 1 is a small child, Strength 6 is a powerlifter" are too jarring - they don't fit the reality of how the game mechanics actually work. Honestly, I don't like how skills are described, either. For comparing how good someone is, overall dice pools are a much better indicator than base skill or Attribute ratings.

More rambling:
For metatypes, I wouldn't simply add the bonuses to the "average" for them. Just as you find more guys than girls who are less fit, because they are naturally stronger, you will probably have lots of orks and trolls who don't get past that 3 or 5 in Strength, because they don't have anything pushing them to improve.



The former thing I think is just a drawback to a grainy system.

But counting die pools in there...yes, very important. For example, Guy 1 might have 6 Strength(Olympic material), but 3 body-nothing spectacular, not bad. Guy 2 might have a 5 strength, but a 5 Body as well(no stopping this guy, he hasn't gotten sick in years, he's got mad endurance.) Someone can dead-lift 15kg per point without a test. Guy 1 can pop 90kg off the ground without trying-but guy 2 does 75. He has actually has to make an effort to hit 90.

But a Lifting test is Body+Strength. It increases the weight per hit. So maximum, guy 1 can add 15x9 dice, or 135kg to his lift. Guy 2, with 10 dice, can add 150 kg to his lift, from being in overall better condition. Now...they're equal all of the sudden, even though the first guy is technically stronger. Drop Guy 1's boyd to 2(not sickly, but perhaps he gets winded easily), and suddenly, he can only lift a max of 15kg LESS than the guy who isn't as strong as he is.

You can look at plenty of other die pools, too-the Charisma 6 socialite might only have a 1 in Etiquette. Okay, so they basically get around by their natural charm. The second person, say, a very strict Etiquette teacher who isn't known for being particularly well-liked but not hated, corrects everyone for the slightest infraction, or whatnot, has a 3 Charisma. They're average, it would be higher if they weren't so damn annoying...but they rock a 6 Etiquette. They just *know*. And their die pool is higher.

Single attributes and skills can be used as a rule of thumb to describe how good at someone is at something, yes...but the real test comes from the whole pool. There can be someone with 5's in every attribute-they are just naturally awesome-but have very few skills, and they are at low levels-they just don't have a lot of training or experience. Their skills at 1-2 give them die pools of 6-7. Someone else might just have a 3 down the line, but their huge skill ratings of 5-6 actually have them outperform the person above them, but because they know what their doing. At the same note, Person 1 with the Attribute of 2 and the skill of 5, is even to the person with an attribute of 5 and a skill of 2 for varied reasons, but they are both outperformed by the person with the 4 attribute and the 4 skill. The third person isn't as naturally gifted as the second, nor are they are learned as the first, but they still can outperform either of them by having a bigger die pool.

RE: the Metas having lower attribute averages-that's actually an interesting way of thinking about it. I know if I had a natural body of 4, I wouldn't be doing a damn thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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JFixer
post Feb 26 2009, 12:33 PM
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Very keen observations.

Elfenrir has hit the nail on the head, noticing that a person who gets by on skill, and a person who gets by on natural aptitude, are different animals. If people would pay attention and enforce the RP of these characters, they'd know what was going on better. My ork has dazzling charm and charisma... for an orc. At Cha4 he's topping in at the best of Ork society, better than your average human? He's suave, socially perceptive, and he doesn't spit when he speaks or pick his nose in public. At least not when he's around non-orks. He's groomed, he's well dressed, he's intimidating when he needs to be, and isn't making an ass of himself with belching and farting when he's not. He has no etiquette though. So he's a bit unsure in social situations, doesn't know how to ask where the bathroom is or where to put his hands in a fancy resturaunt. He's much more at home in a one on one setting where he doesn't have to make everyone look at him or raise his voice to add to general conversation. He fits in just fine in the segment of society he's from, but elsewhere he's a touch lost. He just relies on his naturally orkish charisma to get along with everyone.

Counteract this with the Elf, who's natural charisma is 3. He's an augment addict, ascerbic, careless of others feelings, but oh-so-pretty. He looks nice, but has all the social grace of a pit viper. Aloof, cold, occaisionally vicious. But he has two dice in etiquette, and a specialization in Street. He knows how to talk to gangers, knows how to flash their signs, knows how to hit up the homeless for info and the patrol grunts for help. He knows when it's appropriate to flash your gun and when it's the correct time to chill people out, or rile them up. He knows because he's studied it, because he's lived there long enough to get an instinctive feel for the situations and knows that important intel by heart, or he's spent time with guys who taught him the ropes. More, he can turn those rules on their ear, and knows which fork to use at dinner, which hands to shake in the office, and which politicians secretaries to hit on to get where he needs to go and rub shoulders with who he might need to knock off. He may be less capable than Don Juan De'Orko, but Addict Elf /knows/ what to do. He just happens to be a dick about it.
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