I Need A Chase Combat Example Options

[hobgoblin]

Based on that you should be able to break off Chase combat in less than four minutes in non-high-speed situations. BY RAW, however, you cannot.

i know im going to regret it, but gimme the numbers...

[Cain]

i know im going to regret it, but gimme the numbers...

In Chase Combat, you need to spend three rounds at Long Range, then you get to make a Break Off test. Each round = 1 minute, so it takes at least 4 minutes to Break Off from Chase Combat.

[DoomFrog]

I was just reading up on this. I think I may have a handle on it, but I don't know. None of this is for sure, but this is a Chase Scene as I imagine it.

Let's assume that Runner team A (with a non-rigging 1IP runner at the wheel) is trying to escape evil Go Gangers B, Runners in a Bulldog Step Van, Gangers in a Honda Spirit.

Now, if these guys are on the Open Highway in NAN territory with no cars, then it isn't much of a chase. The Gangers take a complex action to accelerate past their "Running acceleration" and the Runners do the same. The Gangers will have a few turns where they will be able to keep up (because their acceleration is higher) but eventually the Van will pull away because it has a higher top speed.

Round 1)
-Shadowrunners (0 Meters/Turn) use a complex action to accelerate. They get 2 hits on a driving test and accelerate 12 (10 Running acceleration+2 hits)
-Go Gangers (0meters/Turn) Use a complex action to accelerate, they get 1 hit and accelerate 21 (20+1 hit)
-End of first round, Gangers going 21, Runners going 12.

Round 2)
-Runners (12 Meters/Turn) Use a complex action to accelerate, get 2 more hits, and accelerate 12 again.
-Gangers accelerate Walking speed (no complex action) and try to Ram (Sideswipe), They accelerate 3 (by choice, to pull along side)
-Gangers roll attack (Reaction+Vehicle skill+0 Handling modifier) 3 hits. Shadowrunners Defend by (reaction+Vehicle skill+0 Handling Modifier, 3 hits), They trade paint but don't do much to each other.
-End of 2nd round, both teams going 24.

Round 3)
-Runners (24 Meters/Turn) Use a FREE action to accelerate Running speed (10), and a complex action to Ram back.
-Runners roll (Reaction+Vehicle Skill) but suffer a -3 Dice pool penalty because they are "Running" this round, get 1 hit. Gangers Roll (Reaction+Vehicle Skill) and suck it up, getting 0 hits. Runners deal the Bulldog's Body rating to the Gangers (because they are going between 21-60 Meters/Turn, page 160) a.k.a 17 Damage to the Gangers(Body 16+1 hit)and the runners suffer 8 (1/2 damage dealt) themselves. Roll Damage resist accordingly.
-Because of the sucessfull Ram, both vehicles must roll (Reaction+Vehicle+0 Handling) to resist crashing. Runners must roll 2 hits, and gangers must roll 3. In this case, because of the long stretch of straight road, the GM would probably add bonuses to their dice Pools.
-Assuming both cars survive, the gangers accelerate walking (10) and attempt to cut off. They roll (Reaction +Vehicle skill) and get 1 hit. The Shadowrunners try to avoid it by rolling (Reaction +Vehicle skill) with a dice pool modifier of -1 (the number of hits on the Ganger's cut off Test) If they succeed, the are fine, if they fail, they crash.
-End of turn 3, Gangers/Runners going 34 Meters/Turn


And so on and so forth. If you are doing a chase where acceleration and speed aren't strictly an issue (Such as weaving in and out of traffic or on a crowded dock) then you needn't worry about acceleration and maximum speeds and such. Instead, at the beginning of each TURN, the drivers make a test to determine how far away from each other they are (The winner of the test sets the distance for the turn). Here, acceleration and speed mean very little as you are likely performing underneath your car's maximum potential because you are avoiding obstacles. If it is a particularly sparse enviroment (a stretch of the Redmond Barrens that is fairly clear or a strangely traffic-light section of Renton) then the GM may provide Dice Pool bonuses to the guys with higher accelerations.

Although I think your way of doing Chase Combat is really good (and a preferable way) I don't think it is how the book says to do it.

I think it is more like this:

Turn 1:
Runners' driver and Gang's driver roll Reaction + Vehicle +/- Handling. G-Driver gets 3 hits, R-Driver gets 2. G-Driver wins and picks Close Range.
Roll Intuitive
R-Driver is highest intuitive. He choses to do a driving stunt, Maneuver and gets 3 hits.
G-Driver is next. He tries to ram.
The Passengers then get their turns to fire out windows or whatever.
Then second intuitive pass, and let's say the R-Driver has wired reflexes. Since he spent a complex action the last phase to control his vehicle, he can spend simple actions shotting at the other car, but he can't attempt another stun.

Turn 2:
R-Driver rolls Reaction + Vehicle +/- Handling + 3(for Maneuvering last turn). G-Driver gets Reaction + Vehicle +/- Handling. Say R-Driver wins and picks Long Range
Roll Intuitive
G-Driver is highest, since it is long range and he doesn't want the Runners to get away he Maneuvers.
R-Driver tries to Break Off and only needs 1 hit because only 1 vehicle is chasing him.
More shotting out windows, only this time at long range because the cars are at long range.

Turns would continue like that till either a car crashes (from a Cut Off stunt, a critical glitch, or a driver choses not to control their car than fails a vehicle test), a car gets away by succeeding three Break Off stunts in a row, or a car is destroyed.

[Degausser]

Although I think your way of doing Chase Combat is really good (and a preferable way) I don't think it is how the book says to do it.

I think it is more like this:

Turn 1:
Runners' driver and Gang's driver roll Reaction + Vehicle +/- Handling. G-Driver gets 3 hits, R-Driver gets 2. G-Driver wins and picks Close Range.
Roll Intuitive
R-Driver is highest intuitive. He choses to do a driving stunt, Maneuver and gets 3 hits.
G-Driver is next. He tries to ram.
The Passengers then get their turns to fire out windows or whatever.
Then second intuitive pass, and let's say the R-Driver has wired reflexes. Since he spent a complex action the last phase to control his vehicle, he can spend simple actions shotting at the other car, but he can't attempt another stun.

Turn 2:
R-Driver rolls Reaction + Vehicle +/- Handling + 3(for Maneuvering last turn). G-Driver gets Reaction + Vehicle +/- Handling. Say R-Driver wins and picks Long Range
Roll Intuitive
G-Driver is highest, since it is long range and he doesn't want the Runners to get away he Maneuvers.
R-Driver tries to Break Off and only needs 1 hit because only 1 vehicle is chasing him.
More shotting out windows, only this time at long range because the cars are at long range.

Turns would continue like that till either a car crashes (from a Cut Off stunt, a critical glitch, or a driver choses not to control their car than fails a vehicle test), a car gets away by succeeding three Break Off stunts in a row, or a car is destroyed.

This is the way to do it if two vehicles are in traffic, or have barriers (like in the Redmond Barrens). This is because the vehicles cannot simply 'Put their petal to the metal'. They must avoid other cars, debris, open manholes and the like.

[Blade]

Oh, no, the smart thing to do is handwave the escape. But that's neither the RAW or RAI. The intro paragraph clearly says that the rules are for simulating multi-vehicle combat. And even then, they don't work right.

With all due respect, it's a stupid way to read an interpret a RPG book. With this logic, you'd be rolling initiative when the players watch a boxing match since there's a combat, you'd be asking your players to roll a climbing test when they climb the stairs because the climbing skill is to be used when the characters are climbing.

Seriously, what do you need? A whole paragraph explaining in which situations to use chase rules and in which not to use them, taking into account the vehicle's speed and acceleration, the use of magic (movement power, for example), the kind of vehicles, the condition of the chase, the goal of each participant, the color of the vehicles and the music playing in the vehicle's sound system? It's a rulebook not a law!

[Cain]

R-Driver rolls Reaction + Vehicle +/- Handling + 3(for Maneuvering last turn). G-Driver gets Reaction + Vehicle +/- Handling. Say R-Driver wins and picks Long Range
Roll Intuitive
G-Driver is highest, since it is long range and he doesn't want the Runners to get away he Maneuvers.
R-Driver tries to Break Off and only needs 1 hit because only 1 vehicle is chasing him.
More shotting out windows, only this time at long range because the cars are at long range.

This is incorrect. Not the jump from Close to Long Range (The "Picard Maneuver", in reverse) but he has to maintain Long range for 3 consecutive turns before he can Break Off.

A whole paragraph explaining in which situations to use chase rules and in which not to use them, taking into account the vehicle's speed and acceleration, the use of magic (movement power, for example), the kind of vehicles, the condition of the chase, the goal of each participant

Yes, one paragraph explaining all that would be nice. We buy a rulebook for rules, not handwavium. For example, what happens if we want to use a Dodge Scoot to catch an airplane before it takes off? Handwave it away? Or use rules, actual rules, that we shelled out good money for? And that's leaving aside the fact that the airplane will take ten minutes or so to reach takeoff speed!

You can't talk about the RAI, since you didn't write the section; and the RAW simply doesn't work.

[Malachi]

No RPG can possibly simulate every possible situation. The rules give a basic framework and you move on from there. If you want to sit back and poke holes in rules, you can do that all day with any RPG. If you actually want to play the RPG and have fun, then you figure out a way to make it work.

The Chase Combat rules work fine for running fast chase scenes between relatively evenly matched vehicles, or situations where driver skill is much more important than raw vehicle abilities. I'm sure if they wanted to, the designers could lay out a set of "vehicle driving simulation" rules, but the would probably be dead boring. I don't want to play "vehicle simulation," I want to play "Shadowrun."

[hobgoblin]

iirc, they did vehicle driving simulation in rigger3, only noone used them as they slowed down the game to much...

cant please everyone it seems (tho some seems to dislike SR4 on principle).