Armour or Deflect or both, Which spell to take? Options

[toturi]

I am in the process of creating a new charactor. I was thinking of taking Armour or Deflect but couldn't make up my mind. Which spell do you think is better and what force should I take it at?

[Tanka]

Redirect. :D

[toturi]

I am more worried about bullets, man.

[Tanka]

Oh, fine. Armor. It gives B/I equal to Force, so it's good. Force 6, withhold two for Drain (If you need it. 5M ain't too bad) and you're set. It stacks with worn armor, so if you've got a speedy Mage and can handle some good armor, most attacks aren't going to do much to you.

[Backgammon]

Armour gives you a glowing field. Deflect does not. If you don't want to give yourself away, Deflect is the way to go. Otherwise, IMO Armour is more effective. I usually take limited amrour (bullets) though, cause mages tend to stay behind and not get dragged in melee, and grenades are rare for us.

[Fortune]

[kevyn668]

You can do that?

[Fortune]

[Lilt]

Actually, I don't think the Caster Only modifier would, as a whole, work. The caster only modifier is actually a mixture of 3 modifiers (touch range, very restricted target, and voluntary target).

The Limited Armor spells could be read as an example of how the very restricted target modifiers work when applied to armor spells, thus if you put Very Resticted Target (self) on it; it would only protect you from damaged caused directly by yourself (punching yourself ETC).

It's also noteable that no weapons volunteer to be stopped by armor so I don't think the Voluntary target modifier is appropriate either.

I'm pretty sure it'd still be possible to apply the touch range modifier, however, so you can still get the drain down to +2(L) without resorting to limited barriers.

[edit]obviously that's just my reading of the spell modifiers. If your GM reads them differently then the Voluntary target modifier would be supremely munchkin as then you can only armor willing people, although you do lose the ability to cast a low-force armor spell on someone so that they become easier to see or whatever.[/edit]

[Fortune]

I don't see Personal Armor being much different than spells like Personal Bullet Barrier, or even a personalized version of Levitate or Shapchange.

[Sphynx]

The choice is between more dice to roll, or lower TN.

Personally, I go with Armour first (and I buy deflect later) because lower TN's is better. But, if you're in a game where the heaviest weapon is a Heavy Pistol (9m), with shooters only rolling 4 to 6 dice TN 4 (no smartlinks, etc) and have 7 ballistic already (Jacket + FFBA) then your TN is already 2, might as well go for Deflect. But I don't find it likely a Runner is so lucky as to have such easy TNs. ;)

Sphynx

[RedmondLarry]

[Lilt]

If I'm on my own in my reading of the spell modifiers like that then I'd reccomend using the voluntary target and restricted target (rather than very restricted target) drain modifiers. That takes you down to a +1(L) drain code.

[Zazen]

On a more general note, we must remember to use the limitations to achieve the desired effect, not the other way around. So try not to ask "what must 'Very Restricted Target' do when applied to an armor spell?" Rather, ask "How do I model an armor spell that can only be cast on myself?"

This kind of thing used to come up in Champions a lot. People (well, me too) would come up with bizarre game-breaking powers without any justification of how they're supposed to work in the game world. Ok, you've got an autofireX80,000 zero-end continuous damage shield under the 75 active point limit that'll do roughly 80,000 points of knockback whenever you're hit. Why do people enter orbit when they touch you? What kind of superpower are you trying to simulate?

[Glyph]

I don't have a problem with people taking the "caster only" limitation for spells. The only thing to remember is that several limitations are included in "caster only", and some of them (such as touch range or voluntary target) might already be factored into the spell. Still, even if you only reduce the Drain by one level, that still makes a big difference.


On whether to take Armor, Deflect, or both, I would ask: how stealthy are your runs, generally? Does it all hit the fan (with stealth becoming a moot point) on a fairly regular basis?

Armor is better in most situations, but is also much more obvious. And if you don't have a high Body, you are probably better off without it - it lowers TNs, but also screams "I'm a mage! Geek me!" Plus, as Sphynx pointed out, it is only really useful for things like full autofire, IPE grenades, etc. For most weapons, an armored jacket and a full suit of FFBA, giving you 7 points of ballistic armor, will be plenty to bring your TNs down.

Deflect only gives you extra Combat Pool dice, but that can be extremely useful, especially since most awakened characters (with those high scores in Intelligence and Willpower, and usually at least a decent score for Quickness) have good Combat Pools already. If you can expend 12+ dice dodging, you actually have a decent chance of forcing a complete miss - great for things like assault cannon shots and the like. Also, it is far less obvious than Armor, making it more suitable to be cast on a sustaining focus and being ready all the time.

So overall, I favor Deflect a bit more. My favorite "defensive" spell, though, would have to be Improved Invisibility. That spell and Deflect are a really great combo, too.

[Zazen]

If you go with Deflect in a sustaining focus, you might want Combat Sense instead. As I recall it can offer the same dodging benefits, but also lets you use those dice for offense in the unlikely event that you need them. The drain isn't even necessarily higher - just kinda different.

Then again, you might want both!

[Fortune]

[Namergon]

[Sphynx]

Nope, both give up to their Force in dice.

My character has all 3 of the spells, 2 Quickened at Force 6 and 1 (Armour) as a Force 5 w/ Sustaining Focus. 24 Combat Pool against (almost always) TN 2 is very nice (and extremely munchkin ;))

Sphynx

[DV8]

24 Combat Pool Dice!?! I should kick your ass. :)

[Sphynx]

Yeah, that's also the point I've semi-retired him. Force 6 Willpower Quickened for 13+6+5 W+I+Q to have a base 12 Combat Pool, and the 2 spells at Force 6 with well enough successes. 18 Force of spells in total for 51 karma to learn(fetish)/quicken(12 karma per Quicken).

Anyhows, he's on ice as I GM the game now, gonna try to convince the GM to let me play my old Psi character when I turn the reigns over.

Sphynx