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> Russian scholar plays Shadowrun, maybe
Herald of Verjig...
post Mar 5 2009, 12:22 PM
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Details within.

Short form is he expects the US to break apart into 6 nations before 2011.

The part he's ignored is about what happens to Russia during the Awakening. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)
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hobgoblin
post Mar 5 2009, 02:40 PM
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i could have sworn i have read about this before...

and i think the general response from the "natives" was that people see themselves as americans first, then as a member of the state they may have grown up in or live in.

from the looks of it, its more likely that EU will split under pressure, then USA.

i guess the thing is that there is one language, and one can relocate to any state at the proverbial drop of a hat...
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nezumi
post Mar 5 2009, 03:13 PM
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I'd say you've been scooped, but then you're liable to subject me to the pain of a thousand deaths.

It has been described before, and the general consensus (beyond "you're wrong!", "No, YOU'RE wrong!" "N00b") was that the "analyst" is working for a questionable newspaper, describing something he saw in a dissimilar situation (the USSR splitting up).
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 5 2009, 03:18 PM
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While I do think the US' position as the top country in the world is in jeopardy. I don't think there will be a second American Civil war. Plus if the US did break up I think that Alaska would more then likely join Canada then Russia (mainly because of anti-Russian sediment in Alaska). I don't see 6 distinct regions in the US either. If it did break up it would most likely break up on the Red/Blue State lines with most of the Dixie states, plus the Mid West becoming one nation, while the Yankee states, plus the west coast becoming another nation.

I think it mainly shows the ignorance of the Russian scholar.

This article was on /. earlier this year.
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Wesley Street
post Mar 5 2009, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 5 2009, 09:40 AM) *
i could have sworn i have read about this before...

You did. Topics are buried so fast in the mountain of traffic on this board that what was old becomes new again very quickly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Neraph
post Mar 5 2009, 05:03 PM
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Actually, President George Bush Jr. signed some paperwork that would allow Canada and Mexico to merge with America, and the creation of an "Amero," the new form of North American currency. So the opposite would be true; we're gunna grow.
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pbangarth
post Mar 5 2009, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Mar 5 2009, 10:03 AM) *
Actually, President George Bush Jr. signed some paperwork that would allow Canada and Mexico to merge with America, and the creation of an "Amero," the new form of North American currency. So the opposite would be true; we're gunna grow.


The hypothetical Amero has been in the blogs for a long time, but I haven't heard of Bush signing any kind of document promoting union of the three countries. Can you give a reference?
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 5 2009, 05:55 PM
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In order for Canada or Mexico to join the US there would have to be a referendum first and I'm very certain it would fail in Canada (at least right now).
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Kev
post Mar 5 2009, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Mar 5 2009, 12:03 PM) *
Actually, President George Bush Jr. signed some paperwork that would allow Canada and Mexico to merge with America, and the creation of an "Amero," the new form of North American currency. So the opposite would be true; we're gunna grow.


*sigh*

Where did you come up with that?

There is absolutely no way, reason, or merit for the United States to give up the US dollar's stranglehold on all international trade just to cut Mexico and Canada in on the deal. Any merger of currencies would only happen if the United States tried to initiate it, and they won't, because in reality who DOESN'T use the US dollar for international business anyway?
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Kev
post Mar 5 2009, 06:02 PM
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Plus I don't know many Canadians that are willing to give up their sovereignty to become gluttonous Americans, but I could always be mistaken. Canada will, barring any ridiculous global upset, always be our friendly neighbors to the north. And Mexico will always be that neighborhood rugrat that nobody wants in their house but likes having around 'cause they're fun.
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hobgoblin
post Mar 5 2009, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (Kev @ Mar 5 2009, 06:58 PM) *
There is absolutely no way, reason, or merit for the United States to give up the US dollar's stranglehold on all international trade just to cut Mexico and Canada in on the deal. Any merger of currencies would only happen if the United States tried to initiate it, and they won't, because in reality who DOESN'T use the US dollar for international business anyway?

stranglehold? the euro seems like its doing quite well as a world coinage these days (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Wesley Street
post Mar 5 2009, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (Kev @ Mar 5 2009, 12:58 PM) *
Where did you come up with that?

It's a complete fairy tale but makes for a nice conspiracy theory. Or a Spycraft 2.0 adventure.
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ravensmuse
post Mar 5 2009, 08:37 PM
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Really, all you have to do is look at how the "scholar" split up the country and you have every indication of how wrong it would be.

I mean, I'm from New England and (no offense) screw the English.

Fake Edit: where's the crazy map? I was going to make a point, damn it!
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Herald of Verjig...
post Mar 5 2009, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Mar 5 2009, 10:24 AM) *
You did. Topics are buried so fast in the mountain of traffic on this board that what was old becomes new again very quickly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ah, I only checked a few pages back to see. Late to the story.
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Browncoatone
post Mar 6 2009, 12:30 AM
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I say this story on CNN too. The Ruskie obviously has never visited the West Coast because if there's ever a breakup of the US it won't be along state lines and California sure as Hades ain't gonna be ruling Oregon & Washington if it does.

As for the whole Amero thing, pu-lease! If Western Canada or Northern Mexico wants to join the Union, they can do it the same way Texas & California did: send a request to the US Congress for admittance into the Union. This whole North American Union conspiracy nonsense is so patently ridiculous.

Our Alien Masters would never allow such a thing.
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 6 2009, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE (Browncoatone @ Mar 5 2009, 06:30 PM) *
As for the whole Amero thing, pu-lease! If Western Canada or Northern Mexico wants to join the Union, they can do it the same way Texas & California did: send a request to the US Congress for admittance into the Union. This whole North American Union conspiracy nonsense is so patently ridiculous.


Alberta can join the US for all I care but I'm quite happy having Western Canada as part of Canada. I would rather see Western Canada become their own country then join the US. I love my healthcare and freedom a little too much.
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Browncoatone
post Mar 6 2009, 01:30 AM
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My point is that there doesn't need to be some ultra-secret nefarious plan to unify Canada & America, the constitutional prerequisites are already in place for new states to join the union.

As for your Canadian healthcare, it's towards the top of the list of things that threaten to break the US apart. 20 states have already begun moving resolutions through their respective legislatures to put the Federal Government on notice that it is overreaching it's constitutionally mandated responsibilities. For the first time in history there is a real possibility that the Union will lose territory rather than expand. And another American civil war is something nobody on this planet wants to see whether they realize it or not. The ramifications of such a conflict are global and almost without exception, dark.
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pbangarth
post Mar 6 2009, 02:33 AM
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Do you really think the US is coming close to civil war? I don't see that from up here. Not that it isn't happening, but it comes as a surprise to me.

EDIT: Hey! I made it to Running Target! Yayyyy!
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MJBurrage
post Mar 6 2009, 02:50 AM
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QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Mar 5 2009, 03:37 PM) *
...where's the crazy map? I was going to make a point, damn it!

Andrew Osborn's Wall Street Journal article—from December 29, 2008—had a map.
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pbangarth
post Mar 6 2009, 03:09 AM
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you know, even in my most beer-and-drug-induced hallucinations about US states joining Canada, I never thought of Kansas. This guy has some imagination!
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TheForgotten
post Mar 6 2009, 04:13 AM
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QUOTE (Browncoatone @ Mar 6 2009, 02:30 AM) *
My point is that there doesn't need to be some ultra-secret nefarious plan to unify Canada & America, the constitutional prerequisites are already in place for new states to join the union.

As for your Canadian healthcare, it's towards the top of the list of things that threaten to break the US apart. 20 states have already begun moving resolutions through their respective legislatures to put the Federal Government on notice that it is overreaching it's constitutionally mandated responsibilities. For the first time in history there is a real possibility that the Union will lose territory rather than expand. And another American civil war is something nobody on this planet wants to see whether they realize it or not. The ramifications of such a conflict are global and almost without exception, dark.


Moving resolution is a lot different then passed resolutions. Give me 200 buck and a fifth of vodka and I can probably get just about any hairbrained idea introduced in the Louisiana Legislature. Will it ever get brought up in committee, let alone make it to a floor vote, no.

Also, nobody is going to succeed from the Union because the federal government did something about healthcare. Sorry, just not going to happen. The republicans are nuts, but they aren't that nuts.
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Method
post Mar 6 2009, 04:48 AM
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QUOTE
"...his predictions fit into the anti-American story line of the Kremlin leadership."

I think that about says it all right there, and it only took them 2 paragraphs to spit it out. This is lame Neo-Cold War propaganda, and its not even good.

Besides, if the US were to break up, I can guaran-fucking-tee that Wyoming/Montana/The Dakotas will not end up on the same side as Illinois. SRs division of North America is far more realistic, and that is really saying something.
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Draco18s
post Mar 6 2009, 05:13 AM
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QUOTE (Method @ Mar 5 2009, 11:48 PM) *
Besides, if the US were to break up, I can guaran-fucking-tee that Wyoming/Montana/The Dakotas will not end up on the same side as Illinois. SRs division of North America is far more realistic, and that is really saying something.


They put thought into it when they did it. Obviously some of that though was purely supernatural in rasoning (cough, ghost dance, Tir Na Nog, cough), but otherwise pretty well done. The South (CAS) hates the rest of us (UCAS) still, over the civil war even though every single civil war vet is dead, Texas wanted to be a free state once, and California wanted no part in the USA initially.
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Browncoatone
post Mar 6 2009, 06:23 AM
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The number of independence movements in the US can be quite shocking to those not following them. Hawaii, Texas, Alaska, California, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Vermont, & New York all have groups pushing for separation from the union. And those are just the one's I'm aware of- there's probably more.

QUOTE
Also, nobody is going to succeed from the Union because the federal government did something about healthcare. Sorry, just not going to happen. The republicans are nuts, but they aren't that nuts.

It's not the healthcare specifically, it's the idea that you can't go to a doctor unless the government assigns you to one and the massive federal tax hike that accompanies that healthcare plan.

The top two things that will start a civil war in America (and it's closer than you may realize) are:

1. Circumventing the 2nd Amendment
2. Excessive and/or unfair Taxation

Both are on the table in the smoky rooms in DC.
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pbangarth
post Mar 6 2009, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE (Browncoatone @ Mar 5 2009, 11:23 PM) *
The number of independence movements in the US can be quite shocking to those not following them. Hawaii, Texas, Alaska, California, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Vermont, & New York all have groups pushing for separation from the union. And those are just the one's I'm aware of- there's probably more.


Wow.

QUOTE
It's not the healthcare specifically, it's the idea that you can't go to a doctor unless the government assigns you to one and the massive federal tax hike that accompanies that healthcare plan.


Is this an American thing, the assignation of a doctor? That's not an artifact of the Canadian system. You can go to any doctor here. And while the taxes that go with the universal system are higher than in the US, the amount spent per capita is actually less than that in the US. As a nation, you would save money with a system like Canada's. The sticky part is that the odd beemer would have to go into health care for the rubby on the street corner.

QUOTE
The top two things that will start a civil war in America (and it's closer than you may realize) are:

1. Circumventing the 2nd Amendment
2. Excessive and/or unfair Taxation

Both are on the table in the smoky rooms in DC.


Couldn't you just shoot the politicians proposing the taxes? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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