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#1
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 ![]() |
Here's an article that I think all the gunbunnies out there (you know who you are) will enjoy:
When Seconds Count: Idaho Integrated Breaching Shotgun It's a prototype underbarrel shotgun developed by the US Department of Energy's Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory. Read and enjoy. :D |
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#2
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 ![]() |
Fascinating -- although they overlooked the rule requiring all new weapons systems to be hideously expensive and generally bloated all around. :grinbig: -Siege |
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#3
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 ![]() |
That's not new. The French produced an underbarrel shotgun for a pistol sold to the Union during the Civil War.
Looks flash, though. |
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#4
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 ![]() |
Under barrel shotguns aren't a new concept. There's an m16 variant known as the masterkey that incorporates an underbarrel shotgun. One Random Source of Many: Link
There's also THIS army.mil link talking about it being fielded in Afghanistan. THIS page has links to a Shadowrun thing with lots of new, mostly overpowered guns. Several of them incorporate underbarrel shotguns, but no accessory. Shadowrun-wise, gut says to make it 8S, 2 kgs, 2 rounds manual, -1 or -2 conceal, firing mode is SS(The defiance T-250 is SA and an autoloader, a pump ought to be SS). I'd think this through more, but I've other things that need my attention. Edit'd because I went back over it and noticed not only a broken link, but a double-tap typo! The Horror! |
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#5
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 ![]() |
The article mentions the US military's model as cumbersome and ungainly, hence the desire to streamline and facilitate the concept. Not a new concept, but a new approach to the concept. -Siege |
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,011 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 ![]() |
Forgive me if this is a silly question, but why is this coming from the Department of Energy?
~J |
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#7
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Canon Companion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 ![]() |
Eh... maybe because I think that the Department of Energy has control of USA's nuclear facilites? I'm not use whether NEST is under DOE though. |
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,011 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 ![]() |
That's enough reason for them to be obtaining and deploying them, but I wouldn't think that they'd be developing it...
~J |
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#9
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Canon Companion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 ![]() |
Well, you know bureacracy... everyone wants a piece of the action. |
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#10
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 586 Joined: 22-November 02 From: Gordonsville, Virginia, U.S.A. (or C.A.S.) Member No.: 3,630 ![]() |
Ancient History:
I may be mistaken, but I believe that the weapon to which you refer is the LeMat revolver, sometimes known as the "LeMat Grapeshot revolver", which was used by CONFEDERATE officers. Designed by a Confederate officer from Louisiana, the LeMat was a nine-shot single-action percussion ("cap-and-ball") revolver of approximately .42 caliber, with a secondary smoothbore barrel of approximately .69 caliber (roughly the same as the obsolete (since the 1920s) 14-gauge shotgun bore size) which also served as the cylinder's axis pin. The LeMat design featured a pivoting nose on the hammer: in its normal position, it fired the chambers of the cylinder; moved into the lower position manually after cocking, it was ready to fire the shotgun barrel. The weapon was a favorite of such noteworthies as General P.G.T. Beauregard, and Major Generals Richard Anderson and J.E.B. "Jeb" Stuart. Here's a little more information about it: http://www.pride-net.com/january/1998/civilwar/lemats/htm --Foreigner |
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#11
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 ![]() |
Ah, I must have confused it with their Union revolver, which had the .50 caliber underbarrel and 10 .30 caliber rounds on the upper. My bad.
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#12
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 586 Joined: 22-November 02 From: Gordonsville, Virginia, U.S.A. (or C.A.S.) Member No.: 3,630 ![]() |
Ancient History:
Could be. :) Then again, it's just as likely that there was a Union counterpart to the LeMat of which I was not aware. ;) --Foreigner |
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#13
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 ![]() |
Ya know Kage, I had a similar reaction.
However, I'm going to guess someone who felt the need or perhaps believed in the project decided to bypass the traditional outsourcing and make use of in-house resources. Just a guess. -Siege |
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#14
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Mostly Harmless ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 ![]() |
Unless they went under DHS with the whole reorganization, NEST is under DOE.
IMO, this thing is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Having a guy with a shotgun pop locks or hinges doesn't really waste any time at all, as long as everyone is aware of what's going on. No one needs a longer barrel on an underbarrel shotgun, nor do they need a bunch of rounds. They're primarily used for door breeching, which generally requires three rounds. It looks also pretty cumbersome, especially on that freakin' MP5 (mostly because of that huge box mag sticking out of it). I don't think it will get very far. KAC's Masterkey was a better deal, IMHO. Hell, having a Serbu Super Shorty as a backup would be better, I think. |
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#15
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 ![]() |
....I wonder what the Super Shorty's stats would be for SR...Although a Roomsweeper is of similar concept.
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#16
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 ![]() |
People really shoot door hinges? I always thought that was an action flick kind of move, figuring that bullets/pellets/whatever could potentially ricochet around and hit people. Can you tell me more about how they do it, who does it, and the problems involved? |
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#17
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 ![]() |
Except the roomsweeper holds a crapload of ammo, and uses Heavy Pistol ammo, I think.
I have it under the nonexistant weapons list in my games. Along with the AVS! Oooh! |
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#18
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 ![]() |
Yeah. But I want a shotgun with Heavy/Light Pistol conceal, shotgun damages, and is a pump/semi-auto, not a fraggin' Eichiro Hatamoto I.
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#19
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 ![]() |
er, yeah.. The SWAT team does it. They use rounds that are made of powdered metal, fired from a ported barrel to keep pressure down. Anyway, they put the barrel directly on the hinge and pow. No wait, thats how they destroy locks. They use explosive charges on hinges. |
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#20
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 ![]() |
Nothing quite beats a brick of C4 for when you don't care what's behind the door or how big your entryway is, though. :grinbig:
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#21
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 ![]() |
It's either that or using small explosive charges on the hinges -- but I think the logic runs, "It's easier to take advantage of current training to use shotguns rather than teach them to use small amounts of C-4."
-Siege |
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#22
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King of the Hobos ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 ![]() |
Best guess, Model: Serbu Super-shorty Gauge: 12 Range: Light Pistol Conceal: 3* Ammo: 2 magazine Mode: SS Damage: 8S- to reflect the shortened barrel, possibly even a fair bit less Weight: 2.4 kg Availability: - Cost: 675 ¥ *+1 Conceal when stock is folded |
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#23
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 ![]() |
...Stock? What stock? All it has is a foregrip that folds...And I think the conceal would be a LOT bigger judging the size of the pistolgrip compared to the size of a human hand. And didn't it say three shots in the magazine as well as a fourth in the chamber?
...Sorry to be a nitpicky barstard. :D |
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#24
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Canon Companion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 ![]() |
It is easy to misjudge the proper amount of C4 to use. By the way, personally, I've never seen anyone use C4 to do the doors but I've seen people use Detcord.
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#25
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King of the Hobos ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 ![]() |
Stock? Ack! Meant to say foregrip. :D On the concealability, I looked at a couple pictures and it seemed to be roughly the same size as a lot of submachine guns so I put it in that general category with a rating of three. As for the magazine size... there seems to be some disagreement between sites. There is a 20 gauge version of the weapon though so that might be what you mean.
Plus since the thing is so small, I'd also probably consider hitting it with an increase in recoil penalties, taking it up to a +2TN after the first shot rather than the normal +1. But since it's a SS gun that's academic, unless you play it that pump-action shotguns are classed as SA weapons. |
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