Active armor defense!, That Citymaster just got scary. Options

[Browncoatone]

Gotta love the 21st century.

[hobgoblin]

sounds like they took this concept:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

and scaled it for tank use...

also kinda reminds me of the tank found in c&c generals...

oh, and:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_active_protection_system

[pbangarth]

Hmmmm... 90% effective means 10% gets through. So, you could have 1 missile hit you, or 10. Hmmm... I can see the army's dilemma. Better wait and buy the local product the lobbyists are pushing. Whenever it gets designed.

[the_real_elwood]

Yeah, there's probably a defense contractor in the U.S. already working on a system that does the same thing. Plus, there are security issues with sourcing a major component for your Main Battle Tank from a foreign company. And, with the current survival rate of the heavy armor employed by the U.S., maybe the cost isn't worth the 90% protection from missiles and rockets.

But I'm surprised that there's not a system like this already in Shadowrun. I would think that with the current state of tech in Shadowrun, building a similar active protection system would be fairly easy. Though I suppose it's similar to the operation of the reactive armor that they already have in Rigger 3, and not worth adding something else to the rules.

[KCKitsune]

Well... Laser Weapons just got a leg up in cost effectiveness.

Slightly off topic, but why do you need Exotic Weapon skill to use a laser pistol/rifle/cannon? I mean with Smartlink your shots are even easier than with a ballistic weapon.

[Draco18s]

But I'm surprised that there's not a system like this already in Shadowrun. I would think that with the current state of tech in Shadowrun, building a similar active protection system would be fairly easy. Though I suppose it's similar to the operation of the reactive armor that they already have in Rigger 3, and not worth adding something else to the rules.

Ablative Armor (SR3) or Smart Armor (SR4) I think is the best you'll come.

[pbangarth]

Well... Laser Weapons just got a leg up in cost effectiveness.

Slightly off topic, but why do you need Exotic Weapon skill to use a laser pistol/rifle/cannon? I mean with Smartlink your shots are even easier than with a ballistic weapon.

Hey! Yeah....

[Sir_Psycho]

Uhh... Missile Defense System p.139 Arsenal?

[WeaverMount]

But I'm surprised that there's not a system like this already in Shadowrun. I would think that with the current state of tech in Shadowrun, building a similar active protection system would be fairly easy. Though I suppose it's similar to the operation of the reactive armor that they already have in Rigger 3, and not worth adding something else to the rules.

Because this isn't nearly 80s flavored enough.

[WeaverMount]

And, with the current survival rate of the heavy armor employed by the U.S., maybe the cost isn't worth the 90% protection from missiles and rockets.

It seems to me that this isn't really for MBTs.The idea is to give lighter vehicles some kind of chance against serious ordnance. There are all kinds of vehicles who's role does not allow for literal tons of armor that would like to reliably turn RPGs, but would love to have a good shot at surviving a strike or two.

[KCKitsune]

It seems to me that this isn't really for MBTs.The idea is to give lighter vehicles some kind of chance against serious ordnance. There are all kinds of vehicles who's role does not allow for literal tons of armor that would like to reliably turn RPGs, but would love to have a good shot at surviving a strike or two.

I don't care what kind of tank you're in; if you get hit with a missile from the air, you're screwed. End of story. Also armor doesn't protect against the damage to the tracks. Sure I can't kill a tank with a RPG, but I can sure as hell stop it and turn it into a very expensive pill box.

[AllTheNothing]

I don't care what kind of tank you're in; if you get hit with a missile from the air, you're screwed. End of story. Also armor doesn't protect against the damage to the tracks. Sure I can't kill a tank with a RPG, but I can sure as hell stop it and turn it into a very expensive pill box.

True, but remember to put out of commission the cannon otherwise the tank might be unable to move but it might be still able to cause harm.

[hobgoblin]

gasoline down the air intakes?

nothing immobilizes a tank like smoking out those people inside, optionally cooking them while still inside...

and 90% effectiveness still means that there is a increased chance of completing the mission compared to before...

[the_real_elwood]

I don't care what kind of tank you're in; if you get hit with a missile from the air, you're screwed. End of story. Also armor doesn't protect against the damage to the tracks. Sure I can't kill a tank with a RPG, but I can sure as hell stop it and turn it into a very expensive pill box.

If we're talking real world and not Shadowrun, the U.S. doesn't really fight anyone who's got serious anti-armor missiles that are going to have a flight profile to hit the tank from the air. We're fighting some two-bit rinky dink insurgents with rocket propelled grenades and IEDs. The era of the MBT in warfighting is coming to an end, and I'm not surprised that the government isn't looking to spend billions to defend against an increasingly rare threat to its less and less used tank forces.

[InfinityzeN]

Infantry are death to tanks. Sa'way it goes. Little sneaky shits get up close, plant mines, slap charges on the tracks, climb on top and do nasty stuff to the sensors, shoot rpgs up the tail pipe, etc.

The shotgun one would work good as an AIS (Anti-Infantry System) to make them resemble a garbage bag full of chicken noodle soup hitting the concreat.

[Browncoatone]

The era of the MBT in warfighting is coming to an end

Hockey puck! The tank is no more outdated than the bayonet. The effectiveness of a MBT comes in it's versatility and adaptability. As long as these vehicles continue to be updated with modern technology they will remain the spearhead of modern armies. Updated? You know, like turning an anti-tank weapon into the world's biggest shotgun.

[hobgoblin]

unless you can have your enemy group themselves in a open area, that shotgun is going to create way to many civilian casualties. talk about a pr nightmare.

thing is that tanks basically only come into its own in a trench/front-line style fight, while these days its becoming more and more urbanized guerrilla fights, where the tank is like using a cleaver where one should use a scalpel.

urban areas also makes it that much more simple to get at its weak spots...

[Browncoatone]

You're falling into the most common mistake in the history of warfare: You're preparing for the last war. The reason why our tanks are deployed in support of infantry as they dig out paramilitaries is because they're so good that nobody wants to fight them- not because they're obsolete. As for the shotgun round, it's blast pattern isn't anymore dangerous to civilians than .50 cal machinegun fire or artillery strikes- that is, it's only dangerous to civilians when they're the target.

Just wait until they get the solid-state laser perfected.

[hobgoblin]

thing is, one have only the last war to gather experience from.

trying to envision what the next one will be may well result in some very big white elephants...

[pbangarth]

Orbital White Elephant Strike!!

[HappyDaze]

But I'm surprised that there's not a system like this already in Shadowrun. I would think that with the current state of tech in Shadowrun, building a similar active protection system would be fairly easy.

Considering how long it took wireless to catch on in SR, I'm not surprised.

[Apathy]

It seems to me that this isn't really for MBTs.The idea is to give lighter vehicles some kind of chance against serious ordnance. There are all kinds of vehicles who's role does not allow for literal tons of armor that would like to reliably turn RPGs, but would love to have a good shot at surviving a strike or two.

The kill ratio against MBTs will go way up once we are up against a modern army with current-generation top-down anti-armor weapons like the Javelin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdRnY-TUb4...feature=related). The tank in the video is just a T-72, but even the M1-A2s don't have significantly better top protection. I expect that will probably change with the next generation of armor...

[AllTheNothing]

Orbital White Elephant Strike!!

White? .... Oh, wait that prototype I've heard of was a Pink Mammoth (with mohawk) not a pink elephant.
Please pay no attenction to my delirium.

[hobgoblin]

White? .... Oh, wait that prototype I've heard of was a Pink Mammoth (with mohawk) not a pink elephant.
Please pay no attenction to my delirium.

sadly, all that hair was causing to many jams, not to mention the resulting fireball of burning hair gave to much of a warning...

there was however some attempts at wrapping it in a black trench coat...

[KCKitsune]

True, but remember to put out of commission the cannon otherwise the tank might be unable to move but it might be still able to cause harm.

hence the reason that I said that it will get turned into a very expensive pill box