Dual Pistols (not fired in the same simple action), Questions I've either missed or never seen answered Options

[Caadium]

All of the rules that I've seen regarding dual wielding regard using 1 simple action to fire both weapons. My questions come about for a character in a game I'm running that has something of a Dirty Harry bent. That's right, this character currently uses a Ruger Super Warhawk, and has recently approached me about dual wielding. I'd love to get some clarification as to how others would handle this. Here is what I'm thinking since he was thinking of going this route to fire each pistol on separate simple actions:

Off hand penalty would apply to the pistol in his second hand (he'd like to practice and spend karma to gain ambidextrous though).

If he fired the second gun at a second target then obviously the second target modifier would apply.

As the firing of each weapon is a different simple action, dice pool wouldn't need to be split.

Please correct me if any of the above is wrong. Now, here are where I've got some questions.

Smartlinks and such are useless when using the dual wield RaW since those apply to using both hands simultaneously with 1 simple action. In the situation described, how would you rule that Smartlinks work? I can see some people saying that it just wouldn't offer any benefits at all, but that doesn't seem right to me when a Smartlink would give its bonus to the same gun for 2 shots in an action phase. Although I think most would disagree I can also see some people arguing that the Smartlink should work for both pistols. My thought is that the Smartlink would apply to one weapon at a time, requiring some sort of action (probably the "change linked device mode" free action, unless this is addressed somewhere else I'm unaware of) to select which smartlinked pistol it is synched with.

Recoil, in RaW, are for weapons that fire more than once in an action phase. As each pistol in this case would only be fired once in an action phase how would you apply it? RaW would suggest that there was no recoil for the second pistol fired, but I don't see how firing a hand cannon in each hand wouldn't have some drawbacks. My thought is to apply the -1 modifier to the second shot for the recoil from the first, but I'd love to hear what others think.

Thanks for the help on this.

[Mikado]

Offhand penalties would apply to the weapon held in the off-hand.

Second target modifiers would apply when firing at another target.

As it is two separate actions and not one you would not need to split your dice pool.

The second shot (from any weapon) would have recoil modifiers. Unless he compensated it with personalized grip or some such. (Personalized grip, I would rule, would be hand specific.)

As far as smartlinks and lasersights in RAW, you never get the bonus when dual wielding. However, I would rule (and how it is in the game I play in) as long as the shots are not during the same action (simple/complex) you can get the bonus. But that would be house rule territory.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I am not sure I'd call that a houserule. Attacking with a second firearm in the rules is only mentioned when using both weapons at the same time, and are referred to as two-gun attacks. Two-gun attacks negate the pool bonuses from smartlinks and laser sights because the designers thought 1 whole extra die per pool would be so overpowering. Look Ma I's rolling 6 dice and 6 dice instead of 5 dice and 5 dice I's so powerful. What is being done is making an attack and then in the other simple action attacking using the off hand, which does not negate any smartlink penalties.

[Dakka Dakka]

Offhand penalties would apply to the weapon held in the off-hand.

Yes, unless the character is ambidextrous.

Second target modifiers would apply when firing at another target.

As it is two separate actions and not one you would not need to split your dice pool.

Both are correct as well.

The second shot (from any weapon) would have recoil modifiers. Unless he compensated it with personalized grip or some such. (Personalized grip, I would rule, would be hand specific.)

Actually according to RAW it is the second shot from the same firearm that incurs the penalty, but since each weapon only fires once, no weapon gets the penalty.

As far as smartlinks and lasersights in RAW, you never get the bonus when dual wielding. However, I would rule (and how it is in the game I play in) as long as the shots are not during the same action (simple/complex) you can get the bonus. But that would be house rule territory.

You don't need a houserule for that. By RAW you can use your first simple action to shoot one gun with smartlink bonus, then your free action to switch a wireless device and lastly the second simple action to fire the second now smartlinked firearm. According to RAW you can even do that with two long bursts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Phylos Fett]

I had a similar character idea back in the days of SR3, and it was pretty much resolved the same way.

[Jaid]

Actually according to RAW it is the second shot from the same firearm that incurs the penalty, but since each weapon only fires once, no weapon gets the penalty.

nope.

Additionally, any uncompensated recoil modifiers applicable to one weapon also apply to the other weapon.

[Dakka Dakka]

Line which you quoted is from a paragraph which only deals with the rules for shooting two weapons in one simple action, thus the recoil overlap also only applies to this situation.

[hobgoblin]

so in theory, two machine pistols with the right amount of recoil compensation can get of a burst each without seeing any recoil?

[Dakka Dakka]

Even two SMGs.

[hobgoblin]

heh, i keep forgetting that SMG's can be used with one hand...

however, as i look over the relevant parts of the text, it seems as tho the rules assume you only use one weapon, unless your firing two in a single action...

[Dakka Dakka]

As I stated before, without additional houserules it is possible to shoot two different handguns in one simple action each. These simple actions follow the normal rules and thus the recoil is -0, -2, -5 for semi automatic, short burst, and long burst respectively, as each weapon fires only one shot or burst.

The paragraph about recoil starts with "Weapons that fire more than one round in an Action Phase suffer from an escalating recoil modifier as the rounds leave the weapon."(SR4 p. 142) So the weapons in each hand do not influence one another as long as they are not fired simultaneously i. e. in the same simple action.

[hobgoblin]

ah, thanks for that small bit of quote. that makes all the diff.