20th Edition Errata, Errata for the new 20th Anniversary edition of SR4 Options

[Draco18s]

Or that you have to define which items are covered by a particular license.

Such as "this one license covers all of my existing weapons.
Though I will point out that most ShadowRunners don't care about licenses due to the Forbidden equipment in the trunk.

[Tiger Eyes]

Officially, each different item that is restricted requires a license, as do some things that are legal (drivers license, pet dog license). However, any GM can decide to houserule licenses, or roll them into lifestyles (my personal favorite), or figure LoneStar has better things to do than to examine your commlink to see if you have a license for the spell casting focus they don't see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

In our game, when we buy fake IDs, they come with basic licenses (drivers license, for example) and we pay extra for things like guns and magic (Magic doubles cost of fake SINs in our game, weapons add 1,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) and then figure it's all covered. My GM does not like paperwork or dealing with those little details (hey, we don't have to pay for lifestyles, either).

[Rotbart van Dain...]

So it's a licence for the specific weapon, not a general licence for all firearms.

The RAW example is a 'firearms licence' and 'type of item' - the 'it' part isn't exclusive.

Otherwise I'll just take a Weapon License, and Cyberware License and a Magic License, and be able to carry and use nearly anything.

Going with the 'firearms licence' example, it would be Melee Weapons, Projectile Weapons, Firearms, Firearm Accessories, Ammunition, Grenades, Armor, Software, Sensors, Security Devices, Chemicals, Cyberware, Bioware, Concealed Carry, Security Service, Pilot Aircraft, Pilot Ground Craft Licences for the 'Freelancing Security Consultant'.
And that's a nightmare already.

Officially, each different item that is restricted requires a license, as do some things that are legal (drivers license, pet dog license).

Then officially, the current rule and example are wrong?

In either case, it's an errata. And in the case of a 'each single item is a licence'... well, I'm sure the fun it adds to the table to read the licences for your gear aloud to the GM is enormous... for every single of the dozens of SINs.

[ElFenrir]

We sorta have the ''roll 'em together'' method, with a touch of lifestyle. High or Luxury? Yeah, you're pretty much covered. (Alternately, if you use the Lifestyle Points, you can lump this perhaps under ''Security''.) We just sorta pop Cyber, Bio, Firearms, Melee for those who have lesser lifestyles. It might make it easy, but no way do I feel like keeping track of 14 licenses for everything, as a player OR GM.

Legality can be a pretty gray area. For example, if a PC served 6 years in the UCAS military and has some mil-spec ware, and actually left with a good record(getting into running later, let's say)...I'm not picturing that the lieutenants or whatnot get their bone lacing ripped out when their duty is up. Not in my games, anyway. So some folks I always pictured is viable having certain ware.(Bone lacing, in any case, as a GM I'm lighter on. Reason? Bone lacing is forbidden, while bone density is not only perfectly 100% legal, it does the same thing, with a minor trade-lacing gives some armor, density can go up to +4 damage dice to soak-Titanium only goes up to +3.) I really see no reason why one is 100% legal and the other is outright forbidden.

Then again, the legality bits have always confused me when it comes to some things. Bone lacing=forbidden. Wired Reflexes=restricted(and usually more dangerous than the former.) Bone density=legal. Dermal Plating and Orthoskin-Restricted. Dermal Sheath=totally legal(and better than Plating. I'm using my Augmentation book.) Strength enhancement on cyberarms-AkA the Stat That Doesn't Do Much=restricted. AGILITY enhancement=aka the Combat God stat=LEGAL. I just have to scratch my head. (The only thing I can think of in the case of cyber and bio legality differences, like the Density vs. Lacing, is 'money talks', and apparently people with a lot of money aren't trying to use them for nefarious means. But...erm, still. Agility legal and Strength you need a license for? No sir, I don't get it.) In any case, in our games we play it a bit looser, and this stuff mainly comes into play with things like travel, going into a very high-class high-sec area, etc, and even then we have ways around it.

[Larsine]

p324 Ammunotions table:
The "Cost" is not alligned correctly with the prices for the ammo.

p335 Exotic Melee Weapon table, Monofilament Chainsaw:
The "–2" under "AP" is not alligned correctly, or the "AP" over the "-2" is not alligned correctly.

Lars

[Larsine]

Then officially, the current rule and example are wrong?

Or mayby you just read them wrong. They make perfect sense for me, and the examples (Gundslinger Adept, Street Samurai) fits the way I read the rules.

But then again this could be another OR/success discussion.

Lars

[Ryu]

@Larsine: This is the thread were I can tell you how much I love what you did? Thank you very much! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif)

[Angier]

@Licenses

As around the globe of the 6th world different nations have different legal rulings depending the need for licenses etc I think the point is rather mood as the GM has to rule how the PCs are affected by this need.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

They make perfect sense for me,[...]

So it makes perfekt sense that by RAW, you can have a firearms licence? Good to hear.
Especially becase that's what RAW says anyway:

Each type of item/activity requires a separate license.

[...]and the examples (Gundslinger Adept, Street Samurai) fits the way I read the rules.

In that case, I'm wondering how that does compute for you. On the other hand, archetypes have and had so many errors that they don't count as reference for anything.
Of course, if you honestly think it's sensible to have a licence list a whole page long, for each SIN...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Semantics... What works for you may not work for someone else...

In our games, we need liceses for each Type... Ie.. Light Pistols, Heavy Pistols, Assault Rifles (Yeah Right... try and find a licens for that), etc... This is the middle road between the two, Not exactly a "Firearms" license, but not a "Colt Manhunter" License either...

Fairly similar to real life... You need a Conceal/Carry License where I live to carry a Pistol... Not a "Firearms License" or a "Glock 32 License"...

It workd for us to use the Common Sense approach...

My Two Cents

[Synner667]

In our games, we need liceses for each Type... Ie.. Light Pistols, Heavy Pistols, Assault Rifles (Yeah Right... try and find a licens for that), etc... This is the middle road between the two, Not exactly a "Firearms" license, but not a "Colt Manhunter" License either...

Fairly similar to real life... You need a Conceal/Carry License where I live to carry a Pistol... Not a "Firearms License" or a "Glock 32 License"...

It workd for us to use the Common Sense approach...

My Two Cents

Sounds the most sensible to me.

Doing it the HERO way is the way we do it - 'x' character points for a characters to start with Non-Lethal Pistols/Blades/Unarmed Combat [above a specific level] License, etc.

Referring to the HERO or GURPS rules usually gives a good answer for almost all of the problems with SR 4.

[ElFenrir]

I kinda like how it's played rather loose in the rules, letting tables sort of come up with their own things for this.

We don't like a lot of bookkeeping for stuff like this, so generic ''firearms'' ''mil-spec weaponry'' ''cyberware'' and ''bioware'' works well with us(we also have ''chemical'' and ''high explosive'' areas, for the chemists and demolitionists out there, since they are different enough from the rest.) We call ''Class A magic'' anything that's not a health or detection type spell, and most illusion spells.

This basically covers everything with 7 licenses. Granted, I don't think we ran across one character who actually needed *all* of these. Of course, only stuff with an R+ is really needed for this. (I count mil-spec weaponry as anything that runs under the Heavy Weapons category.) Having 3,000 licenses for every class and grade of stuff is much more of a headache than I need at a table. Just tell me what you are buying licenses for at chargen and there you go. Of course, you might need to get new ones later in game, but I try to cut down unnecessary bookeeping. Does this make some stuff a bit easier? Sure, but we don't play the game to hose the PCs at every waking moment, we play to have fun watching our characters grow and mingle.

Actually, mentioning a positive quality for that kind of thing sounds neat, though. I might even do a version that has one negative tied to it-you need a SIN(SINner negative quality.)For every 5 BP, you are essentially licensed for one category of your choice. Of course, it's cheaper in game, but those are fake licenses, and these are, for all intents and purposes, the real deal.

[Angier]

btw

@devs

any updated ETA for the compiled errata?

[Larsine]

@Larsine: This is the thread were I can tell you how much I love what you did? Thank you very much! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif)

Thanks, I just do what I find most natural. I do however wonder how 11 official proofreaders can miss so many errors.

Lars

[Draco18s]

Thanks, I just do what I find most natural. I do however wonder how 11 official proofreaders can miss so many errors.

Well, I don't know either, but I do know that mistakes can be made, even easy to spot ones get through. For instance, just last week there was an article in the newspaper about the current year 20009 economy.

[Larsine]

Well, I don't know either, but I do know that mistakes can be made, even easy to spot ones get through. For instance, just last week there was an article in the newspaper about the current year 20009 economy.

Damn, I fell asleep and woke up 18000 years later. That beats Sleping Beauty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Lars

[Draco18s]

Damn, I fell asleep and woke up 18000 years later. That beats Sleping Beauty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Lars

Yup.. And the economy still sucks.

[Freejack]

Technically I don't believe every proofreader proofed the entire book. I proofed several chapters and then ran through others once or twice as we got to the deadline. It is harder to re-proof the chapter you did the first time (at least for me). I did catch a lot of errors and the others caught even more (I'm more of a spelling guy than grammar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). That there are so few is quite gratifying.

I am specifically looking in this thread for the ones caught in the chapters I proofed though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Carl

[Tiger Eyes]

My proofers did an amazing job. Really. Consider that for the 30 page Wireless World chapter, they actually generated 50 pages of proofreading corrections. Or the wonderful job they did reviewing the sample characters - (complete with discussions over 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) clips - LOL) - through 3 proofing passes each. Some of the errors are ones they caught, but somehow (I dunno, from the hundreds and hundreds of comments they made) slipped through the cracks. I appreciate every blood-and-sweat filled moment they spent (and yeah, I'm still bringing cookies for you guys & gals at GenCon).

[Draco18s]

Damn it, now I have to go to GenCon!

[Freejack]

Ooo, cookies. Can't wait now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Carl

[Zurai]

Thanks, I just do what I find most natural. I do however wonder how 11 official proofreaders can miss so many errors.

Lars

A 350 page large book (like the SR4 core book) will have ~800 words per page for 280,000 words. Assuming editors and proofreaders catch 99.9% of all errors (and only considering things like typos and incorrect data as errors, for this example), there will still be 280 errors in the book. Even with a completely astounding 99.99% accuracy, there'll be 28 typos or data errors. Of course, that's assuming that every word is an error to start with. Let's reduce it to 1 error per 10 words. That's 28 simple errors for 99.9% accuracy and 2.8 for 99.99% accuracy.

Then add in all the complex errors on top (entries in separate parts of the book that give different rules for the same action, etc). It's really not that hard to have a massive error list for a published rulebook.

[Muspellsheimr]

And under your assumption that there is one error per 10 words, the authors are very shitty writers. I am nowhere near the level of a professional writer, & I would estimate I have at most 1 error per 50 words, prior to proof-reading.


I do not know if this one has mentioned (did not double-check the existing list), but p.252, the RUNNING THE SHADOWS header is a third of the way down the page.

[Draco18s]

And I'd say proofreaders are 99.9% accurate. I might give them 90% accuracy.

That leaves 560 errors. Even at 99% accuracy that's still 56 typos.

[Cardul]

Semantics... What works for you may not work for someone else...

In our games, we need liceses for each Type... Ie.. Light Pistols, Heavy Pistols, Assault Rifles (Yeah Right... try and find a licens for that), etc... This is the middle road between the two, Not exactly a "Firearms" license, but not a "Colt Manhunter" License either...

Fairly similar to real life... You need a Conceal/Carry License where I live to carry a Pistol... Not a "Firearms License" or a "Glock 32 License"...

It workd for us to use the Common Sense approach...

My Two Cents

I know where I live(Florida), not only do you need a Conceal and Carry permit to have a pistol, but you must also register that pistol, and, if it is to leave your home, you also need a transportation permit. So, I can see why they would have the whole "Each weapon with a separate license" approach..remember: Tings are stricter governmentally in the future..(since look how much stricter they have gotten RL just since Shadowrun 1 came out). At least knives are no longer unlicensable like they were in 1st through 3rd.