Fun with Free/Ally Spirits!, Inhabitation Greatness and More! Options

[Irion]

@Udoshi
You need to be initiated to learn a metamagic technique...

And you can only learn metamagic techniques from FREE SPIRITS.

A character may learn metamagic from any free spirit that
knows the technique. In this case, the Karma is actually paid
directly to the spirit. See Free Spirits, p. 106. To learn the technique,
the student must make an Extended Intuition + Magic
(8, 1 day) Test.

If the gamemaster approves, Awakened characters can
learn metamagic techniques through other methods, in addition
to the one they acquire at each grade of initiation.

The key word here is in addition.
This means you need to have A to get be additionally.

[Udoshi]

The biggest abuse of this is with the optional rule for learning metamagic outside of initiation from a tutor.

Just so you know, I already covered that. The whole thing relies on the gm using optional rules

[Irion]

@Udoshi
Still does not work for ally spirits by RAW.

And ally spirts can't spend karma to begin with...

[pbangarth]

The point is: If the free spirit has a friendship pact, it gets this amount of Karma. If it takes an additional pact, it gets more Karma. And so on.
(Not to mention you can cancel any pact at any time and so get around the penalty of the friendship pact...)

Ending a spirit pact without the death of one or both of the participants is usually not possible and is the stuff of epic magic and plot devices.

In the case of the friendship pact, death of the metahuman partner leads to the loss of Force on the part of the spirit. So in the case of my FSPC, her plan now that she understands what she has done is to earn extra karma through the second spirit pact to allow her to grow Force back as her short-lived friends die*, and either just not make new pact-friends or make sure they are elves or something else that doesn't die in a trice.

*Most of them belong to a street gang clearing out turf in LA. Either human or ork. They took her in when she first became free, and she bonded with some of the original members. But their life expectancy as gang members in a tough neighbourhood is pretty short.

[darthmord]

In the case of the friendship pact, death of the metahuman partner leads to the loss of Force on the part of the spirit. So in the case of my FSPC, her plan now that she understands what she has done is to earn extra karma through the second spirit pact to allow her to grow Force back as her short-lived friends die*, and either just not make new pact-friends or make sure they are elves or something else that doesn't die in a trice.

*Most of them belong to a street gang clearing out turf in LA. Either human or ork. They took her in when she first became free, and she bonded with some of the original members. But their life expectancy as gang members in a tough neighbourhood is pretty short.

You could get some FSPC powers (via that karma) that let you buff up your metahuman pact mates so they are more survivable. One of them is Immunity to Age IIRC.

[Irion]

@darthmord
Thats the formula pact. This pact makes the metahuman carrying your formula immortal... But he or she can be used against you.
Like I said: The best way to balance free spirits is to give them karma like the rest of the group without hitting them over the head for it. (And prevent them getting more Karma per hour than the rest gets for a run...)

[Neraph]

Is a Hybrid Form the ONLY one that can use DNI? Wouldn't a Flesh Form allow fully functioning use of cyberware and DNI as well - or is that the point of a Hybrid (gets the best of both worlds)?

- J.

You'd think Flesh could, but Hybrid is the only one that has it spelled out. I'd think that an "ability" of a Flesh merge would be the ability to use DNI, but Hybrid merges are the only ones that specifically mention it.

I very much dislike the rule, that free spirits are unable to summon normal spirits of their tradition...
A demon needs to summon lesser demons. (Yeah, I know they actually could summon higher once, which would just suck... But that generally sucks... Also with mages...)

That is why they use the Calling rules and have Leadership.

[Udoshi]

And ally spirts can't spend karma to begin with...

Not strictly true. They don't EARN any.

If they manage to get some, then its karma. Everyone gets to use it the same way.

You can intentionally transfer karma to a spirit through a specific ritual. The best actual use of it is to give your ally spirit a handful of karma to pick up Specializations. Its 5 to give them a new skill at Force, but two points to enhance one they have already.

Theoretically you could teach them Qualities if you really really desired and had gobs of karma to piss away, but the list of those is fairly low - though martial arts does come to mind.

[Irion]

@Udoshi

Not strictly true. They don't EARN any.

Read: Enhancing ally spirit. To enhance your ally spirit, the mage needs to manipulate the formula and spend karma. There is NO other way mentioned in the book.

You can intentionally transfer karma to a spirit through a specific ritual.

NO, you can't.

Theoretically you could teach them Qualities if you really really desired and had gobs of karma to piss away

No, you can't.

At a later time, an initiate may choose to modify an ally
spirit’s formula to grant the ally spirit additional forms, skills,
powers, or spells. The character may also raise the ally’s Force in
this manner. Modifying the spirit formula requires a new Logic
+ Arcana (desired Force x 5, 1 day) Extended Test or another
metaplanar quest.
After designing or acquiring the modified spirit formula,
investing the spirit with new abilities requires a new binding
ritual—sometimes called a Ritual of Change—in a magical
lodge with a rating equal to or greater than the Force of the ally.
Conjuring materials equal to the spirit’s Force are also required
and Karma must be spent on the relevant changes at the costs outlined
above. Raising Force, however, is twice as expensive this way
(1 point costs 16 Karma).

At NO point what so ever do you transfer Karma to the spirit. Everything new the spirit can do, has to be written down in the ally spirit formula. And the things which can be written down in the formula are quite restricted.

@Neraph
What rules are you refering to? The rules of calling other free spirits?

[The Jake]

Udoshi you are confusing the rules with Free Spirits and Ally Spirits. I wish it worked that way. I might be able to justify learning powers for my ally spirit outside what I could summon if it did. Alas, it is not to be... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

You'd think Flesh could, but Hybrid is the only one that has it spelled out. I'd think that an "ability" of a Flesh merge would be the ability to use DNI, but Hybrid merges are the only ones that specifically mention it.

That was my reading but I was hoping you'd tell me different. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

-J.

[Neraph]

@Neraph
What rules are you refering to? The rules of calling other free spirits?

... Yes, which is why I said the Calling rules.

[Tiralee]

Dear gods - and I though the Dikoted ally spirit motorbike/sword/stripper ninja that you could have sex with was a bad path to follow....

-Tir
"Spirits...ally spirits, the debate never changes..."

[Neraph]

Nice to know I've impressed someone else.

[tisoz]

This thread was linked in a more recent thread, so sorry for the necromancy...

Friendship Pact + magical group contact = Gold.

Let's do a Contact 2/Loyalty 5 (maybe 6) group with 20-99 people in it (+2), Sprawl-Wide (+2), and most members have magical talents (+4). For 15 BP we have an infinite pool for our Friendship Pact to pull from.

EDIT: Don't forget you get a pact for free, and can take additional ones for 1 SP (Spirit Point, not to be confused with adepts). Grab Power Pact, Drain Pact, or something else, and go to town with your own 90-person magical group! Charge 1 karma a week each for the ability to add your Force to their drain as many times as they want each day, and at Loyalty 5 (6 for 1 additional BP) they'll jump at the chance! Welcome to 90 karma/week.

1st, I do not see where it says you can take a group contact for the Pact. It seems limited to a number of participants equal to Force. It further goes on to state that if Force should increase, another participant must be added within 24 hours and if a participant dies, Force and natural attribute ratings get reduced. So I do not see how one could get a group of 20-99.
2nd, I do not see where the FSPC is getting 1 Karma/day/member. All I can assume is this is payment derived from other Pacts offered to the group, but I do not see the point. I am guessing you are using the rule that the Friendship Pact does not require those on the other end of the Pact to buy the Spirit Pact Quality, but all the Pacts except Friendship require "the person with whom the spirit has the pact must have the Spirit Pact quality."

The idea of taking a magic group as a contact and offering spirit pacts to the members (as well as teaching metamagics in the future to several students at once) is still viable, but each member will need the Spirit Pact Quality and as NPCs, the GM controls them.

[tisoz]

The point is: If the free spirit has a friendship pact, it gets this amount of Karma. If it takes an additional pact, it gets more Karma. And so on.
(Not to mention you can cancel any pact at any time and so get around the penalty of the friendship pact...)

Thats why I said: Give free spirits a formula pact which allows them to earn Karma as Metahuman, but make it exclusive.
Because to say: Well, you way of earning Karma comes with a lot of drawbacks and micromanagement, but I do not allow you the other ways... Is kind of a dick move.

All Spirit Pacts are for life with the exception of the Power Pact which is for 24 hours.

The big benefit of the Friendship Pact (besides not requiring the the non-spirit member to have the Spirit Pact Quality) is it allows the FSPC to earn karma normally (like PCs.)

[Neraph]

This thread was linked in a more recent thread, so sorry for the necromancy...

1st, I do not see where it says you can take a group contact for the Pact. It seems limited to a number of participants equal to Force. It further goes on to state that if Force should increase, another participant must be added within 24 hours and if a participant dies, Force and natural attribute ratings get reduced. So I do not see how one could get a group of 20-99.
2nd, I do not see where the FSPC is getting 1 Karma/day/member. All I can assume is this is payment derived from other Pacts offered to the group, but I do not see the point. I am guessing you are using the rule that the Friendship Pact does not require those on the other end of the Pact to buy the Spirit Pact Quality, but all the Pacts except Friendship require "the person with whom the spirit has the pact must have the Spirit Pact quality."

The idea of taking a magic group as a contact and offering spirit pacts to the members (as well as teaching metamagics in the future to several students at once) is still viable, but each member will need the Spirit Pact Quality and as NPCs, the GM controls them.

The group contact is not the total pool for the Spirit Pact, but rather a willing pool of "applicants" for it. You don't have all 20-99 people in the pact automatically, but you have 20-99 people willing for you to choose from.

EDIT: You have to forgive me from 6 years ago. I've learned some things since. The concept is still viable and everything, just maybe not necessarily the rate at which you get karma.

[tisoz]

The group contact is not the total pool for the Spirit Pact, but rather a willing pool of "applicants" for it. You don't have all 20-99 people in the pact automatically, but you have 20-99 people willing for you to choose from.

EDIT: You have to forgive me from 6 years ago. I've learned some things since. The concept is still viable and everything, just maybe not necessarily the rate at which you get karma.

Ok, I liked the idea, I just did not understand how you were getting that huge karma machine.

Taking the magic group as a contact and as the the set that the friendship pact is chosen from makes more sense than choosing the fellow runners for the pact. Hopefully it is an initiatory or learning magic group that lives a safer life. Maybe offer the friendship pact to some wealthy magicians who will get Leoniation treatments - even have the spirit pay for them down the road, lol.

The other benefit of the magic group contact is lots of potential people for other pacts and students for teaching metamagics. With a large enough group and several pacts with several members and the karma machine can get rolling.

[Pendaric]

I have two NPC free spirits that just pay people for karma as they lack pacts. Inspired by this forum to a degree. One is a talismonger with human form- so changes appearance with plenty of ready cash to bargain with.
The other is a combat plastisteel hormonculus in a EVo subsid. Basically got corp citizenship and a wage from a 24 hour a day sec job/ research teaching job with one day off a month for large karma down load..
Hi arcology populace, give me some of your memories for high cash compensation- your friendly security FreeSpirit.

Trust as a factor is actually easier for the Evo FS being corp sponsored. Damn Corpers always have it eaiser.

Another npc FS is an ex ally and is Machiavellian in in the number and quantities of karma grifted from those around him, while they think he is helping. Sentient flesh form cat in action.

[Neraph]

I prefer blood spirits - just rip the karma from their still warm chest cavities.

[Modular Man]

Blood spirits tend to get shot at more often.
Of course, from their perspective, attracting enemy combatants isn't necessarily a bad thing.