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> Building the Most Suppressed Pistol Possible
FlakJacket
post Mar 13 2009, 05:09 PM
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Quick question since I've finally decided to move over to Fourth Edition fully and I'm currently try to build the most silent heavy pistol possible. As far as I can see the modifications to take are integral silencer for a -6 modifier, electronic firing for a -1 modifier, and to use subsonic ammunition for a -2 modifier to give it a total -9 dice pool modier for the perception test to hear it. Is there anything else I've missed that would make it even quieter?
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Mäx
post Mar 13 2009, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (FlakJacket @ Mar 13 2009, 07:09 PM) *
Quick question since I've finally decided to move over to Fourth Edition fully and I'm currently try to build the most silent heavy pistol possible. As far as I can see the modifications to take are integral silencer for a -6 modifier, electronic firing for a -1 modifier, and to use subsonic ammunition for a -2 modifier to give it a total -9 dice pool modier for the perception test to hear it. Is there anything else I've missed that would make it even quieter?

I don't think so and it really doesn't need to be any quieter, most wuold hear a think even if you fir it next to their ears. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 13 2009, 06:22 PM
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What does that do to the effectiveness of the weapon? You would think that slowing down the bullet that much would effect either it's range or power.
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crizh
post Mar 13 2009, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 13 2009, 06:22 PM) *
What does that do to the effectiveness of the weapon? You would think that slowing down the bullet that much would effect either it's range or power.


Other than the effect of the sub-sonic round you would actually do more damage and be more accurate.

The silencer actually strips away the shock-wave that exits the barrel with the projectile. This would normally add inefficiencies to the projectiles flight and reduce it's velocity and alter it's trajectory.

The muzzle gases striking the baffles inside the silencer also stabilize the weapon, reducing the kick from each round. Apparently the lack of flash and noise also causes the operator to flinch less with each round, further improving accuracy.
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Ed_209a
post Mar 13 2009, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 13 2009, 01:22 PM) *
What does that do to the effectiveness of the weapon? You would think that slowing down the bullet that much would effect either it's range or power.

It doesn't change much for pistol rounds. They generally aren't that much faster than sound anyway. SMGs give up a little performance.

For a modern example, the speed of sound is roughly 340m/s. Typical 9mm pistol rounds range from 340-380 m/s. 9mm SMG rounds are around 400 m/s

When you step up to rifle rounds, though, it is a big difference. An assault rifle round will typically give up 2/3s of it's speed to be subsonic. That results in an assault rifle performing more like a holdout pistol. Suppressed rifles rarely use subsonic ammo for this reason.
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Ed_209a
post Mar 13 2009, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 13 2009, 02:00 PM) *
The silencer actually strips away the shock-wave that exits the barrel with the projectile. This would normally add inefficiencies to the projectiles flight and reduce it's velocity and alter it's trajectory.

I think I can see where you are going, but I really doubt it will be enough difference to change any of the SR4 stats.
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Fix-it
post Mar 13 2009, 09:01 PM
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make it caseless, and change the firing mode to SS/SA. action cycling and shell casings make noise.
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 13 2009, 09:01 PM
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*Light Flicks On*

"Jesus, son; what the fuck are you bringing that trog in here for?"

"Me and the boys just needed a quiet place to put him out of his misery, dad. Figured we'd use the furnace after we'd finished."

"What, you're gonna fucking shoot him? It's the middle of the night. Are you trying to wake your dear mother -"

"Relax, dad. I'm using the Morrissey Mezzo Dolce. She won't hear a thing."

"That's my boy. Make sure you hose the concrete when you're done."

The Morrissey Mezzo Dolce: It's that fucking quiet. Available at Weapons World and other fine retailers around the globe.
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Tyro
post Mar 13 2009, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Kanada Ten @ Mar 13 2009, 01:01 PM) *
*Light Flicks On*

"Jesus, son; what the fuck are you bringing that trog in here for?"

"Me and the boys just needed a quiet place to put him out of his misery, dad. Figured we'd use the furnace after we'd finished."

"What, you're gonna fucking shoot him? It's the middle of the night. Are you trying to wake your dear mother -"

"Relax, dad. I'm using the Morrissey Mezzo Dolce. She won't hear a thing."

"That's my boy. Make sure you hose the concrete when you're done."

The Morrissey Mezzo Dolce: It's that fucking quiet. Available at Weapons World and other fine retailers around the globe.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) ROTFLMAO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
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crizh
post Mar 13 2009, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (Ed_209a @ Mar 13 2009, 08:44 PM) *
I think I can see where you are going, but I really doubt it will be enough difference to change any of the SR4 stats.


I agree for the most part. The point being that there is no argument for degrading the stats. Beyond the degradation for using sub-sonic rounds that is.

I did some research on this previously for a thread about silencers and gas vent. Turns out a proper silencer is at least as effective, if not more so than a muzzle brake. I'll search out the link if I have time tonight. It's in a thread on this forum somewhere.
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InfinityzeN
post Mar 13 2009, 10:53 PM
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There is always magic to reduce/completely cancel the sound. Other than that, your not getting better then a -9.
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FlakJacket
post Mar 13 2009, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 13 2009, 06:22 PM) *
What does that do to the effectiveness of the weapon? You would think that slowing down the bullet that much would effect either it's range or power.

It does, subsonic ammunition reduces the range of the weapon by 20% IIRC.
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Draco18s
post Mar 14 2009, 12:06 AM
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And when, pray tell, is a shadowrunner NOT in close or medium range?
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Ed_209a
post Mar 14 2009, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE (Fix-it @ Mar 13 2009, 04:01 PM) *
make it caseless, and change the firing mode to SS/SA. action cycling and shell casings make noise.

This is a good point. The quietest semiauto/fullauto firearm in the world still sounds like hitting a hammer with a hammer.

You often hear lines like "The suppressor is so quiet, the action made more noise than the gunshot." Folks, the action of most guns, and nearly all rifles is LOUD.
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Fix-it
post Mar 14 2009, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (Ed_209a @ Mar 13 2009, 06:41 PM) *
This is a good point. The quietest semiauto/fullauto firearm in the world still sounds like hitting a hammer with a hammer.

You often hear lines like "The suppressor is so quiet, the action made more noise than the gunshot." Folks, the action of most guns, and nearly all rifles is LOUD.


Ideally, you'd just make it an electrically fired revolver. SR rules make silenced revolvers illegal, despite the fact we've had the technology to construct them since 1895
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FlakJacket
post Mar 14 2009, 01:41 AM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 14 2009, 12:06 AM) *
And when, pray tell, is a shadowrunner NOT in close or medium range?

Well I assumed that the 20% reduction in range was overall, so the regular Short range of 0-5 becomes 0-4 meters and Medium drops down from 6-20 to 5-16 meters etc. But since the general idea is to use the weapon with a called shot to the back of the head of the unsuspecting target that's not really an issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Ed_209a
post Mar 14 2009, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE (Fix-it @ Mar 13 2009, 08:35 PM) *
Ideally, you'd just make it an electrically fired revolver. SR rules make silenced revolvers illegal, despite the fact we've had the technology to construct them since 1895

Hmm, caseless, electrically-fired, bolt action repeater...

That'd manage almost all sources of noise.
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Ed_209a
post Mar 14 2009, 02:08 AM
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QUOTE (FlakJacket @ Mar 13 2009, 06:32 PM) *
It does, subsonic ammunition reduces the range of the weapon by 20% IIRC.

This is just because SR4 doesn't want to bother with the difference between subsonic Pistol/SMG (very minor loss of range) and subsonic rifles (drastic loss of range). So rather than one getting -0-10%, and the other -60-80%, everything gets -20%
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InfinityzeN
post Mar 14 2009, 03:02 AM
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QUOTE (Fix-it @ Mar 13 2009, 09:35 PM) *
Ideally, you'd just make it an electrically fired revolver. SR rules make silenced revolvers illegal, despite the fact we've had the technology to construct them since 1895


There is rules for adding a silencer to revolvers in arsenal
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Neraph
post Mar 14 2009, 04:24 AM
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QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ Mar 13 2009, 04:53 PM) *
There is always magic to reduce/completely cancel the sound. Other than that, your not getting better then a -9.

Ares Light Fire 70 with factory-built custom silencer: -7
Electronic Firing: -1
Subsonic Ammo: -2

Total: -10.
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merashin
post Mar 14 2009, 07:48 AM
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QUOTE (Fix-it @ Mar 13 2009, 06:35 PM) *
Ideally, you'd just make it an electrically fired revolver. SR rules make silenced revolvers illegal, despite the fact we've had the technology to construct them since 1895

it never said that you can't silence revolvers, it only said you can't silence the superwarhawk
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