Mountain Climbing and Hiking, Difficulty Tests Options

[Bastard]

I am running a campaign where the PCs have to climb a mountain. There are trails most of the way, but unfortunately there is a lot of snow. In the late spring and summer it is a fairly easy 8 hour hike amateurs can make, but its the dead of winter when they make their ascent.

What difficulty tests should check their condition? I figured since none of them have Wilderness Survival, Hiking, or anything that is relative, I would just use Body Tests to check their endurance/fatigue.

Of course, there will also be a few Athletics Tests for slips, trips, stumbles and falls, but what else should I throw at them (outside of wildlife (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif) )?

In addition to all of this, the snow and any run off could make the trails difficult to follow. Hope they can read a map. I guess its pretty easy to keep heading up.

[Draco18s]

You are your user name.

Quite appropriate mechanics you've come up with though. Following a mountain trail through the snow without killing yourself is quite a challenge (now you know why surviving Mount Everest climbers hired guides).

[Bastard]

Following a mountain trail through the snow without killing yourself is quite a challenge (now you know why surviving Mount Everest climbers hired guides).

Yeah, but I need to find inventive ways for them to kill themselves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif) They already plan on skiing down the mountain to make their escape, though none of their PCs possess the necessary skill. I think the most athletic PC has a level 3 Athletics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Draco18s]

Athletics + Reaction tests vs. speeding up. And avoiding obstacles, Athletics + Reaction - 1 per "speed" to avoid obstacles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

[TBRMInsanity]

Yeah, but I need to find inventive ways for them to kill themselves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif) They already plan on skiing down the mountain to make their escape, though none of their PCs possess the necessary skill. I think the most athletic PC has a level 3 Athletics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

This sounds like a recipe for disaster if I've ever heard of one before.

[DWC]

As someone who's been skiing since the Reagan administration, I can't see how this won't end extremely poorly. When they try to flee from security, it'll be immediately obvious that the PCs are incompetent skiers, at which point the guards get on their snowmobiles and follow at a nice, safe distance, waiting for the inevitable yard sale. As each runner bites it, the guards stop, shoulder their sporting rifles, and put two capsule rounds of a DMSO/Gamma-Scop cocktail into each runner.

That's assuming that the runners survive their inevitable crash.

[Chrysalis]

As someone who's been skiing since the Reagan administration, I can't see how this won't end extremely poorly. When they try to flee from security, it'll be immediately obvious that the PCs are incompetent skiers, at which point the guards get on their snowmobiles and follow at a nice, safe distance, waiting for the inevitable yard sale. As each runner bites it, the guards stop, shoulder their sporting rifles, and put two capsule rounds of a DMSO/Gamma-Scop cocktail into each runner.

That's assuming that the runners survive their inevitable crash.

Precisely. Or even worse they are stuck on the wrong mountain face and die of exposure. The difference between experienced and inexperienced is knowing when not to go on a fool's errand.

[Bastard]

As someone who's been skiing since the Reagan administration, I can't see how this won't end extremely poorly. When they try to flee from security, it'll be immediately obvious that the PCs are incompetent skiers, at which point the guards get on their snowmobiles and follow at a nice, safe distance, waiting for the inevitable yard sale. As each runner bites it, the guards stop, shoulder their sporting rifles, and put two capsule rounds of a DMSO/Gamma-Scop cocktail into each runner.

That's assuming that the runners survive their inevitable crash.

I am going to forward this one to my players! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) After they rag doll down the mountain into rocks, trees and various hard things, of course. I wont even feel guilty cause it's not a team kill, it's a team suicide.

Precisely. Or even worse they are stuck on the wrong mountain face and die of exposure. The difference between experienced and inexperienced is knowing when not to go on a fool's errand.

It's not a fool's errand, it's a fool's plan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) I hope the body casts humble them a little.

[TBRMInsanity]

I find that nothing is more annoying to a PC then finding out that now they are under arrest by corpsec after suffering a deadly wound. I actually had a GM once implant cortex bombs in us after a run that we were all "killed" in. We were forced to do runs for the corp at 0 cost till we could get the bombs removed.

[Chrysalis]

I am going to forward this one to my players! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) After they rag doll down the mountain into rocks, trees and various hard things, of course. I wont even feel guilty cause it's not a team kill, it's a team suicide.

It's not a fool's errand, it's a fool's plan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) I hope the body casts humble them a little.

Or worse if they decide to go off piste and discover that trees seem to leap out in front of them, hills end in sharp three floor drops, and when the winds start up visibility goes from 10ft to 0ft. That is of course assuming they are in proper gear and are not doing it at night.

Or they start an avalanche and are suddenly in a world of hurt.

[wind_in_the_ston...]

Skis? Aw come on, what happened to BASE jumping off the summit?

[Bastard]

Or worse if they decide to go off piste and discover that trees seem to leap out in front of them, hills end in sharp three floor drops, and when the winds start up visibility goes from 10ft to 0ft. ...

Oh, this is already planned my dear friend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

That is of course assuming they are in proper gear are not doing it at night.

Well, they are wearing proper gear, but they are making the run at 0300 in the morning, and I plan on nice large fluffy snowfall. Beautiful, serene, fluffy, soft, visibility modifying snow. That was originally planned for their benefit, giving them some stealth bonus, and covering their tracks as they leave. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Or they start an avalanche and are suddenly in a world of hurt.

Now that is just is just mean! Of course, a mountain spirit might cause one...

[Chrysalis]

... or indiscriminate firing. Not to mention large explosions.

[Bastard]

I am quite sure they will find a tree to hug on their slalom.

I find that nothing is more annoying to a PC then finding out that now they are under arrest by corpsec after suffering a deadly wound. I actually had a GM once implant cortex bombs in us after a run that we were all "killed" in. We were forced to do runs for the corp at 0 cost till we could get the bombs removed.

This is a good possibility. Or the park ranger might catch them and make them do community service, picking up trash on the mountain side in safety orange vests.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I'm not sure I'd make people take the skiing skill. There comes a point of skill bloat where you can't make a realistic character because everything has to be statted out with a skill. As a sort of example my company went on a ski trip this year as a Christmas bonus. One of the people had never skied before, we had him successfully skiing blues by lunch, this does not seem like something worth a skill to me. So for me skiing down the hill no check is needed, skiing down the hill while engaging in combat I'd let gymnastics work for it probably. But I would not force a actually Skiing skill on people.

[Kliko]

I am not entirely objective in the matter... (playing one of said pc's). But will state at least his point of view. (Damn you Bastard (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) )

It's not as bad as it seems and yes the skiing is probaply the worst idea the team came up with, but that being said:

- I can't speak for the rest, but at least one character has 3 ranks in Wilderness Survival;
- Fortunately same charachter is hooked up with an nav-dat GPS, Orientation Sytem, Headware memory, Image Link and semi-decent mapsoft of the relevant area (all cyber and connected through a router). The cyber should mitigate a lot of the previously mentioned issues with hiking/tracking in midwinter;

Of course I like the small and fluffy snowfall as long as there ain't a blowing gale, the audio feeds into the Battletac and the orientation system should at least help them create a semi-decent (tactical) picture of their surroundings.

As for the rest, we (at least myself) expect nothing less (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) . In fact I would put fatique (or stun damage) in there as well in case they/we fail our body tests.

[Draco18s]

I'm not sure I'd make people take the skiing skill. There comes a point of skill bloat where you can't make a realistic character because everything has to be statted out with a skill. As a sort of example my company went on a ski trip this year as a Christmas bonus. One of the people had never skied before, we had him successfully skiing blues by lunch, this does not seem like something worth a skill to me. So for me skiing down the hill no check is needed, skiing down the hill while engaging in combat I'd let gymnastics work for it probably. But I would not force a actually Skiing skill on people.

True, it's not hard to ski, but through 5 people down the hill and they'll kill themselves. The first thing you learn is to not ski strait down hence the test I gave (Athletics + Agility) to avoid "gaining speed," that is, how well are the characters able to maintain a diagonal zigzag course down the hill?

[Shinobi Killfist]

True, it's not hard to ski, but through 5 people down the hill and they'll kill themselves. The first thing you learn is to not ski strait down hence the test I gave (Athletics + Agility) to avoid "gaining speed," that is, how well are the characters able to maintain a diagonal zigzag course down the hill?

when under pressure I'd agree. But just skiing down a hill no, some things you should not have to roll for. And as long as the "skill" falls under some category in athletics I'm fine. I just don't think it should be a separate skill. If there were a separate skill for every lame hobby people can do we'd all by 1,000 point characters.

[crazyconscript]

Skiing down a mountain...in the dark...with little or no experience. Dear lord i would love to be the GM for that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
I've only been skiing once, but while we were there one of the guys managed to stab himself through the calf with a ski pole when he crashed. On the first day. When he was first learning. On the teensy tiny kiddie slope about 10 metres high.
I...DONT...KNOW...HOW!!!!
He ended up being on crutches the rest of the trip, and chucking numerous amounts of ice/snow-balls in attempting to knock the rest of us off while we were skiing

[Chrysalis]

Third day of a skiing trip I dislocated my knee on the slope. I had to relocate it back. Skied on it fine for about five hours before my knee started to knock. A few days later there was fog on the slopes. If I had not known I had to turn I would have gone down a sheer drop.

[PBTHHHHT]

Skiing down a mountain...in the dark...with little or no experience. Dear lord i would love to be the GM for that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
I've only been skiing once, but while we were there one of the guys managed to stab himself through the calf with a ski pole when he crashed. On the first day. When he was first learning. On the teensy tiny kiddie slope about 10 metres high.
I...DONT...KNOW...HOW!!!!
He ended up being on crutches the rest of the trip, and chucking numerous amounts of ice/snow-balls in attempting to knock the rest of us off while we were skiing

don't forget the actress, Natasha Richardson, was on the beginner's slope on a clear day with a ski instructor, fell down, knocked on her noggin and then died. Skiing down a mountain, in the dark, with little or no experience. Dang, good luck.

[Bastard]

One of the people had never skied before, we had him successfully skiing blues by lunch, this does not seem like something worth a skill to me. So for me skiing down the hill no check is needed, skiing down the hill while engaging in combat I'd let gymnastics work for it probably. But I would not force a actually Skiing skill on people.

So you're saying without your help, he could have put skis on for the first time and head down an expert level mountain side (not slope) with full battle gear, in the dark. Sorry, that requires some skill. Some people may have a natural knack, which we will find out when or if the PCs make their Athletics/Quickness Tests successfully. Just because you find skiing easy, doesn't mean everyone does. Separate player from character. Some might find working on their car simple, common sense. Guess what, their character still needs that skill to replace a clutch.

...should mitigate a lot of the previously mentioned issues with hiking/tracking in midwinter;

There is no issue with your hiking/trail blazing/land nav... though you may have to make rolls for going downhill. I have taking your skills/cyber/equipment into it. Plus, it should not be too difficult for PCs to figure out which way is uphill in the light, and find the summit. However, you could get off course going downhill, but your team has BattleTach and other high tech gizmos, and your land nav/wilderness survival should help.

In fact I would put fatique (or stun damage) in there as well in case they/we fail our body tests.

Oh, its planned buddy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

If there were a separate skill for every lame hobby people can do we'd all by 1,000 point characters.

Well, they had 135 BP, 3rd Ed Characters, with extensive Character Background, 35 Questions, and not one PC has listed in hobbies, skiing or any other athletic hobby. Skiing is not simple for everyone, just ask Sonny Bono and Natasha Richardson.

Skiing down a mountain...in the dark...with little or no experience. Dear lord i would love to be the GM for that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Exactly sir. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)



I have 3 years experience skiing, and at the time I was pretty athletic. Ran distance, played sports including ice hockey. I also snowboarded a few times. And guess what I cannot ski worth a damn. So to me, being athletic does automatically mean you can ski, same as it does not mean you can ice skate, dive, curl, play cricket, kick a 35 yard field goal or hit a 99 mph fastball, let alone a knuckle or curve ball.

[Socinus]

Yeah, but I need to find inventive ways for them to kill themselves. They already plan on skiing down the mountain to make their escape, though none of their PCs possess the necessary skill.

Suicidal lugeing doesn't count as inventive?


I would use Agility + Reaction + Any pertinent Athletics skills for the base test.

If you wanted to run a more forgiving game, you could make a roll for each person to see if they slipped during the climb.

If you wanted to really use the thumbscrews, make a secret roll every so often as they climb to see if a person slips.

If you wanted to really use the thumbscrews AND jam splinters under the nail, test for falls randomly and apply penalties for equipment and weapons carried AND make rolls to determine if anyone drops said equipment and weapons when they slip.

[Shinobi Killfist]

So you're saying without your help, he could have put skis on for the first time and head down an expert level mountain side (not slope) with full battle gear, in the dark. Sorry, that requires some skill. Some people may have a natural knack, which we will find out when or if the PCs make their Athletics/Quickness Tests successfully. Just because you find skiing easy, doesn't mean everyone does. Separate player from character. Some might find working on their car simple, common sense. Guess what, their character still needs that skill to replace a clutch.

Sure it requires some training. But who says they don't have it. As far as I know there is no skiing skill and there shouldn't be. Since there is no skill for it, why assume they are incompetent at it and have never done it. Lots of people know how to do lots of things you'd never bother to detail on a character sheet. There comes a point of asking for too many specific skills to do basic tasks. And "full combat gear" is not the same in SR as it is today, and at night normally a big problem, but with all the vision mods that every runner has a minor hindrance instead. So my point is don't make them role for something they very easily could do when they are just skiing down the hill. Make them roll when the guys on snowmobiles are chasing them and spraying them with automatic fire.

[Kliko]

SR3 has this nifty rule which basically states that in case the target number is equal or less than the target's skill, no dice rolls are required.

Best way to approach survival situations is probaply roll skill (or default to attribute) based on a specified difficulty and adjust the target number based on equipment (appropiate gear yes/no?) etc. etc.

As for the skiing discussion it is indeed tough to capture something specific like skiing in a skill system like Shadowrun (or anyother system out there). System wise I would have the players default (adding +2? or whatever the default from a base group to specialization is) to the athletics skill or even worse default to an attribute and roll based on that. The original difficulty depending on the grade of the specific slope the team is descending.

Alternatively, at least teammies equipped with skillwires could have slotted an activesoft...

Sounds reasonable not?

But then again, I'm playing one of the pc's involved...