The Horror, Overrated? Options

[Wounded Ronin]

Send a team of musician mages to the enemy's realm. Have them put on a concert, maybe some Mozart or Tubular Bells. Put them on the defensive. Maybe they'll decide to attack an easier target plane. Maybe a premptive strike will catch them unaware and level the playing field.

Maybe they'll begin to fear us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkhtbOGDaCk

[Mickle5125]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkhtbOGDaCk

Win.

[Zormal]

It's correct that Horros can't create art in any form, but they're not damaged by it either.

At the Chasm, the Horrors were held at bay by the song of the goddess Thayla. Granted, this is no ordinary song, but one "of perfect purity and goodness".

Still, there might be a way to do something similar.

Edit: Just thought I'd mention the source - Dragon Heart Saga

[pbangarth]

Oh man, I love this! Bongo Slade would go nuts ... imagine: learn the Heartbeat of the Gaia and play it at the chasm to hold back the hordes.

[Browncoatone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkhtbOGDaCk

Well I was thinking something more like this, this, this, or maybe this.

But if you'd rather side with the Horrors, you know, to each his own.

[Mickle5125]

Well I was thinking something more like this, this, this, or maybe this.

But if you'd rather side with the Horrors, you know, to each his own.

so, I started playing the first, then the second, then the third... all at the same time...

it shouldn't have been as awesome as it was.

[Mickle5125]

Oh man, I love this! Bongo Slade would go nuts ... imagine: learn the Heartbeat of the Gaia and play it at the chasm to hold back the hordes.

that sounds an awful lot like the plan a malkavian I built in oWoD...

[Browncoatone]

The last time I dealt with Malkavians we were going into battle. Whilst I rallied the Brujah for the fight the Malkavians were dispatched to ready the shotguns.

DON'T EVER SEND THE MALKAVIANS TO GET THE SHOTGUNS!

So we use superior tactics and stealth to take the enemy by surprise and just when we're about to kick ass the shotgun goes: click

The Malkavians insist I only ordered them to bring the shotguns, I didn't say anything about the SHELLS!

Needless to say, that's the last time I trust a Malkavian in battle.

[TheForgotten]

Just a quick point, the SR universe has already been invaded once. In most places the insect spirit got rooted out, except of course for Chicago. Yeah the big bads came onto this plane to be big and bad, and got wiped out by a bio weapon. When humanity decides its us or them humans can get extremely nasty and vicious. (Oh and according to Shadows of North America the Tir had a shit fit about the UCAS actually beating the insect spirits).

This debate keeps coming back to "humanity sucks and is incompetent, they're going to get slaughtered because of this super powerful ability of Horrors to go Astral (never mind that they can't in Earthdawn)". Let me simply humbly suggest that it is impossible for six billion humans to disappear into underground vaults. Faced with an enemy trying to kill billions, the gloves are going to come off. If the survival of the human race requires will Godzilla in the astral, or even an army of Godzillas I expect that Godzilla will wonder what the twinkling light in the sky is just before the white light hits and there's nothing left.

Any species that would treat a nuclear grenade launcher as a serious weapon system is not somebody you want to mess with.

[pbangarth]

so, I started playing the first, then the second, then the third... all at the same time...

it shouldn't have been as awesome as it was.

I'm listening to them together right now. Yeah....

[WeaverMount]

Any species that would treat a nuclear grenade launcher as a serious weapon system is not somebody you want to mess with.

Seriously, humans are no joke.

That said there are a couple horror in the horror book that /only/ exist on the astral. And any one, like many horrors, with circle 7 nethermancer skills can actually open portals that move you bodily onto the astral, so it is actually worth talking about. Damage Shift cost a karma point (read as edge) and makes you invisible for 50 seconds, which is more than enough time for to teleport way (an 8th Circle illusion, 7th circle nethermancy). One horror is explicitly stated as knowing every spell in Barsaive, which is a lot more that was ever printed.

[HappyDaze]

Because this is cyberpunk. The world is dying, not with a bang but with a wimper. The end approaches and defiance of that end is futile- but what else will you do?

Too bad for your statement that Shadowrun has very little cyberpunk left in it. Now it's much more transhumanist meets fantasy. Nowhere in SR do they give the impression that things are hopeless. Quite the opposite, really.

[Browncoatone]

QUOTE
Because this is cyberpunk. The world is dying, not with a bang but with a wimper. The end approaches and defiance of that end is futile- but what else will you do?

Too bad for your statement that Shadowrun has very little cyberpunk left in it. Now it's much more transhumanist meets fantasy. Nowhere in SR do they give the impression that things are hopeless. Quite the opposite, really.

You've got a point there.
I think where SR differs from pure cyberpunk (other than the elves) is that the "end" isn't really the end. It's more like a rebirth. The world as we know it comes to an end, but only because a new world is emerging. And, as with all child birth, there is pain in the process.

Let me simply humbly suggest that it is impossible for six billion humans to disappear into underground vaults.
Any species that would treat a nuclear grenade launcher as a serious weapon system is not somebody you want to mess with.
I expect that Godzilla will wonder what the twinkling light in the sky is just before the white light hits and there's nothing left.

I don't expect 6 billion people to disappear into underground vaults. I expect 10+ billion to die. (I also expect the population to continue to increase until the horrors arrive)
And any species that uses a nuclear grenade launcher isn't long for the material plane. Though if you could somehow get one onto the metaplanes I can see serious possibilities.
I also don't expect the horrors to be completely ignorant of our technology. Look how far the pathetic humans have come in just a few thousand years. We'd be fools to expect the Horrors not to have become even more dangerous in the interim.
Also, this obsession with nuclear weapons...Not my first choice for a defensive action. But since the Horrors are unlikely to be genetically similar to humans, maybe a biological weapon?

[pbangarth]

I also don't expect the horrors to be completely ignorant of our technology. Look how far the pathetic humans have come in just a few thousand years. We'd be fools to expect the Horrors not to have become even more dangerous in the interim.
Also, this obsession with nuclear weapons...Not my first choice for a defensive action. But since the Horrors are unlikely to be genetically similar to humans, maybe a biological weapon?

I really don't know the Horrors, not having read or played Earthdawn, but they seem to me to be at the top of the food chain, and described as unbeatable in those past times. If a species isn't challenged, it tends to stagnate. Humans have evolved so rapidly, particularly in technologies of destruction, because we prey on each other. There are examples of falls into complacency and stagnation (eg. the Roman empire) that demonstrate we too can fall into that trap. If you buy into this position, then it is reasonable to assume (hope?) that the Horrors haven't needed to progress.

And, given they are held back by the gulf between planes, how would they know of our status now?

A very human tactic suggested earlier is the preemptive strike. That seems interesting to me.

[Browncoatone]

I can't imagine a species worthy of the name "Horrors" to have organized itself into any form of Utopian society. Now granted they may have become over-reliant upon magic and thus may have neglected technology (or we can hope) but I also don't expect any species capable of competition with Great Dragons to be stupid. If I were in their position, I wouldn't come blindly storming out of the gates of hell at the first opportunity. I'd send scouts first. And we already see dark forces entering our world. The Shedem, Shadow and bug spirits, are but a taste of the threats we have yet to face. How many of these are the pawns of greater threats?
Again let me point to the most significant difference between ED and SR. It's not technology, but the fact that ED takes place as the tide of magic is going out while in SR the tide of magic is coming in. Though it is true the threats in ED are more powerful than those in SR, keep in mind that the most dangerous horrors had already departed our world before ED takes place. These greater threats are the ones that world of SR will have to contend with, either in a thousand years if Laughingman and his associates are successful, or much, much sooner.

[Lindt]

I love when this discussion comes up every year or so.

I look at it this way, when the horrors show up, they will make a mess. Lots of people die year one. Billions.
Humanity gets its act tougher once everyone stops panicing, and make a pretty good show during the next 2-3 years or so. Those smaller weaker ones are pretty easy to kill once you know their are there. And the dragons, Immortal Elves, and other power players in the metaphysical world teach us how not to die.
Mana level continues to rise, and the bigger meaner ones start showing up. And worse, the more subtle sneaky fraggers who don't just show up to bathe in your blood. It gets ugly again as minor civilizations and nations collapse.
Again though, we learn how to fight them, and the Great Dragons are out there having to crack skulls again. Perhaps we realize that a nasty astral bacterias works, or something else semi ingenious. Little celebration. Really smart people are getting out of dodge, and now living full time either in orbit, or on the moon.
Now another few years, decades perhaps, the REAL horrors can arrive. Those big scary fraggers with Names. Now? Now we as as squashy bags of water and iron get desperate. A few smart ones have gotten around to building neo-cairns. A few dumb ones think that we can unleash the power of the atom, and find out that sure, it might even kill one or two, but you just did some terrible things in the process. Makes you wonder how a horror would react to a mana warp, such as the one that an atomic blast creates.
At this point, we are hosed. How ever the big players from the 4th world survived, they are doing it again, either by fighting or by hiding. Humanity is reduced to total populations in the millions, tops. Even the major horrors find the neo-cairns a tough nut to crack, with better materials, better magic, and better information to keep them safe.

Perhaps I'm a pessimist, but I read my copy of 'Harlequins Back' (which for those of you who haven't, its perhaps the greatest story ever put to paper for an RPG, with the best GM guidelines written) and I look at what it took just to slow them down.

[SpasticTeapot]

Perhaps I'm a pessimist, but I read my copy of 'Harlequins Back' (which for those of you who haven't, its perhaps the greatest story ever put to paper for an RPG, with the best GM guidelines written) and I look at what it took just to slow them down.

I want a copy of that.

Here's a new one: We've got mentor spirits, sprites, free spirits, and all sorts of other pseudomagical entities on the Matrix. Stands to reason that Horrors would start showing up there, too.

I would wonder, though, if we could arrange a Blood Wood sort of deal, but replacing the physical pain with mental anguish. A few Spice Girls songs on infinite loop mixed with a bit of Miley Cyrus would do the job.

[hyzmarca]

>>>>Wheever you hide, I shall find you. I shall rend the flesh from your bones and write the end on the wrond in your blood.
-The Great Hunter

>>>>Hunter, you might find this interesting.
-Masaru

And thus, Verjigorm gets rickrolled. He is not amused.

[Browncoatone]

A few Spice Girls songs on infinite loop mixed with a bit of Miley Cyrus would do the job.

What? No Britney Spears?

[Browncoatone]

Well I was thinking something more like this, this, this, or maybe this.

But if you'd rather side with the Horrors, you know, to each his own.

so, I started playing the first, then the second, then the third... all at the same time...

it shouldn't have been as awesome as it was.

Actually that is rather cool. With better coordination and mixing I could see a World Music chart topper.

[Grinder]

That said there are a couple horror in the horror book that /only/ exist on the astral. And any one, like many horrors, with circle 7 nethermancer skills can actually open portals that move you bodily onto the astral, so it is actually worth talking about. Damage Shift cost a karma point (read as edge) and makes you invisible for 50 seconds, which is more than enough time for to teleport way (an 8th Circle illusion, 7th circle nethermancy). One horror is explicitly stated as knowing every spell in Barsaive, which is a lot more that was ever printed.

Damage Shift doesn't make you invisible.

The Damage Shift spell shifts damage that the magician has
taken in combat or another dangerous situation to another character.
The magician shakes his clothing vigorously while weaving
the spell threads, then taps his forehead and makes a Spellcasting
Test against his own unlowered Spell Defense. If the test succeeds,
the magician can attempt to shift any damage that he takes while
the spell is in effect to another target within his line of sight.
The magician makes a Spellcasting Test against the target’s
Spell Defense as soon as the result of any Damage Test made
against the magician, after armor, has been determined. If the test
succeeds, the damage taken by the magician shifts to the target.
Mystic armor protects against this damage. This spell is patterned
after an ability used by some Horrors.

[WeaverMount]

Damage Shift doesn't make you invisible.

I was talking about the horror power not the spell which reads
Damage Shift: This power allows a Horror to shift damage it has taken onto a target
character. Though the Horror spends a Karma Point to accomplish this, it rolls no Karma
dice; the Karma Point simply enables the Horror to make the necessary Damage Shift
Test to use its power. Damage Shift is an additional action, and does not use up one of
the Horror’s attacks or Spell actions available in a Combat Round. The Horror may use
Damage Shift whenever it takes damage by making a Damage Shift Test against the
target’s Spell Defense. A successful result shifts all damage the Horror has just taken to
the target character. Each use of Damage Shift lasts for five Combat Rounds; the Horror
may make a new Damage Shift Test in any of those rounds, transferring the damage it takes in each round to the target. Damage Shift works by line of sight, meaning that the
Horror must be able to see its chosen target.

[crazyconscript]

so, I started playing the first, then the second, then the third... all at the same time...

it shouldn't have been as awesome as it was.

Indeed, that was an, interesting, experience. And far better than it had any right to be

[hyzmarca]

Yes, but you can still see the Horror.

[InfinityzeN]

Well I was thinking something more like this, this, this, or maybe this.

But if you'd rather side with the Horrors, you know, to each his own.

The Win!