[X] My Assistant

[The Jake]

Afraid i dont have my books with me, so i cant remember what eskrima advantages are. But i'm pretty sure that getting all of that cyber will put you on 250k+ straight off the bat, and you made need a couple of things alphaware to get the essence. I think it could be done (born rich/in debt) but maybe the character would be more suited for the 800BP thread?
Also: Although having titanium bone lacing is damned cool, it renders cyber-spurs obsolete due to having the same damage (S/2+3). Of course, you cant have laes coated hands....
"Okay, here we go!"
"..."
"Why are my covered in something?"

Yep. Pretty much dead on the money (no pun intended).
See the cost in terms of nuyen and essence:

Titanium Bone Lacing 40,000 1.6
Dermal Sheath 3 40,000 1.6
MBW2 85,000 3
Platelet Factories 25,000 0.2
Trauma Dampener 40,000 0.2
Symbiotes (2) 20,000 0.4

Change bone lacing to ceramic and dermal sheath a rating 2 and it becomes a lot more feasible. You still need to look at biocompatibility or alphaware for it to really work however...

The above doesn't include strength and agility enhancements either.

- J.

[Stahlseele]

Why would laes-covered hands NOT work?
You could have your whole natural BODY covered in something.
Just specify sweat as Vector.
But of course, that will be pretty awkward, especially your sex-life will suffer.

[The Jake]

Why would laes-covered hands NOT work?
You could have your whole natural BODY covered in something.
Just specify sweat as Vector.
But of course, that will be pretty awkward, especially your sex-life will suffer.

DMSO+Laes FTW.

Having said that, I fail to see how the in game date rape drug of choice would not improve your character's sex life.... (ok, that was very wrong, but I couldn't help it).

- J.

[The Jake]

Has anyone got a preferred tanking build they use?

- J.

[Stahlseele]

Shadowrun 3rd Ed i could build you Trolls and Orcs that could take a Panther round to the head and complain about a black eye . .
Yes well, i was talking about VOLOUNTARY Sex-Life . .
of course, hookers would work . . have sex, they forget, you disappear . . freebies galore O.o

[ElFenrir]

I'd say for tanks in SR4, you have two things you need:

Dodging
Soaking.

Both of these will make you an effective tank.

For starters, get that Reaction and Body up as high as you can before the diminishing returns eat you. Reaction enhancers, metagenic improvement, and Move by Wire(the latter also helps with Dodge, but beware the Essence cost.) An ork or troll works well here, since neither race takes a Reaction minus. Also, don't worry about Strength. This big guy isn't going to be dishing out the hurt as much as taking it(see below, however), and most of your BP will probably be used up twinking Body and Reaction. Also: Don't forget Willpower! Get this up high too. Remember it adds to Stun meters and makes it easier to resist spells. Tanks need to resist all kinds of damage.

Next up, take Dodge over Gymnastics Dodge. While I am an ultimate fan of the latter, being a big melee fan, this tank-type character isn't really a damage dealer, and you'd rather have the big Dodge skill to double. He'd probably be best with a nice big gun from afar. Give Agility a boost, and hand him a nice big assault rifle, and he'll be a credible enough threat for them to want to attack him. Automatics 4(+2 Assault Rifles) with a Smartlink, and a 4(6) Agility(5(7) for an ork) and have said assault rifle totally beefed up and loaded with nice ammo, and he'll be able to deal nice hurt from afar.

Get Dodge 7 with Aptitude. Specialize in Ranged.

Pick up Dermal Sheath-as high a level as you can afford Essence and Nuyen wise. Do the same for Bone Lacing.

Load up on the most powerful armor, FFBA, PPP, and the whole nine to go along with this.

If you have Quality points left, stuff to make him harder to hit with spells would be highly suggested.

Trauma dampers/etc also help, for if they DO get hit.

Congrats, you have a character with a huge Body score, and tons of armor for soak...if they get past his massive Defense pool to begin with. Being able to hose the oppositon with an assault rifle will make him enough of a threat for them to turn fire on him. Let the tanking fun commence. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The drawback to the cyberlimb version is the fact that while armor stacks, it eats up Capacity quickly and you won't be able to afford the massive Body mods you need. Also, you'd want multiple limbs replaced to be able to get the high Body average. I find the above build, while rather expensive and will use up a lot of nuyen and essence, a better bet.

[crazyconscript]

Tanking as a sam? here are my preferred bits of cyber

For non cyber-limbed characters:
Aluminium bone lacing (titanium maybe, the essence is pretty high for the bonus)
Dermal Sheathing (3 if possible, usually 2)
And maybe the trauma dampener/platelet factories combo if i feel like it. Tanks can excel at many things since this doesnt cost that much as a base...

For cyber-limb characters the solution is quite simple. Full limbs with the armour mod (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

As for gear, if i dont care about being noticeable it has to be Heavy Milspec Armour. And if dont want to be seen i just give the armour ruthenium coating...

Four cyberlimbs with 2 armour=8,+milspec armour+helmet=26/24 armour. Be a troll and you get an additional +1, then carry around a ballistic shield for an extra +6/+4
Voila! 33/29 armour!

[The Jake]

I know orks and trolls rock for the minmax factor, but I can't believe dwarves don't get more of a showing here.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

- J.

[Stahlseele]

Not enough Body bonus.
If there was a Dwarf that switched out Strength for Body, it would work out more favourable.
I do like my dwarves, but not as a tank usually O.o
They are too frigging small . . a Troll can tank simply because:"if he is standing in front of you, you are not seen any more"

[crazyconscript]

To be honest, when i make a character that i actually intend on playing in a game, its a dwarf about 50% of the time. Although i love twinkage i dont like the idea of role-playing orks, although trolls can work (dont question my mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). And dwarves do lose out in terms of min-max potential. I did make a dwarf sammy in 5 mins once though for a quick one shot. He could punch people for more damage than shoot his gun. His catchphrase ended up being "Something is getting punched!!!" cause he kept getting tasered (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Stahlseele]

As for punching things: yes, dwarves, simply because their height puts their shoulder/punching at the same height your nuts are usually.
But you can'T use someone as a meatshield if he's only half as tall as you!

[crazyconscript]

True, but then if all you want is something to hide behind i think heavy combat drones/trucks provide good cover too. Its pretty easy to gets your riggers hands on 3-4 steel lynx's and a vehicle with 20 armour to cart them around in.
I see the tanks job as being the one to draw fire, not simply be mobile cover. And a dwarf can provide that pretty well, even if they dont register at the same threat level as a troll when the corp-sec spots the team.

Hmm, interesting team dynamic:
-"Pansy" troll hacker/mage (S/B min at 5)
-Dwarf tanker Street Sam
-Ork Face
Not exactly your normal runner team i dont think, would be interesting though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)

Also this reminds me of combat hackers who use AR, they can make decent sammies sometimes. I made an ork one who was pretty damned decent in combat. He had wired II (so he didnt need to slip into VR for a turn), and made use of a tacnet with his posse of LEBD drones and was no mean hand with an SMG. I'll see if i can find his sheet somewhere.

[ElFenrir]

Well, I play our team's sam, who is an elf. He punches/kicks for harder than the other guy shoots an HMG(11P base, with 16-17 dice, the latter with Kick Attack, to do it.) I wouldn't call him a tank, nor a glass cannon(Body 5, +3 Damage resist with Titanium Bone lacing, and a +1 from Suprathyroid). He does sport an armor jacket(8/6), PPP 1/3(9/9) FFBA 2(4/1) and Bone Lacing(total armor 14/11). So while awesome, he's not in Ubertank territory. (His defense pools run around 8 for non-full ranged up to 18 for full melee, and stuff in between. He's got several martial arts, including some Escrima, as he enjoys cutting things as well as smashing them sometimes. He uses guns if necessary, but does not prefer them.)

He's the team's muscle(9 Strength-and this can go higher the way I have him set up), but isn't a one-trick; he has a great Armorer skill which he uses to tweak up the team's weapons(and boy, does he have a big order from the guys now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ), as well as decent enough social skills, though he's far from the party's face. I could have made his combat even more ridiculous, but I actually wanted to spread the guy around a bit. Our party's ork is no joke-he's quite the badass, but he's more of a lighter-cybered gunslinger/Ruger/knifewielding Wild West type of guy with other skills in tracking and the like.

The ongoing joke with him is his roundhouse kick. Not quite in the cheese level of Chuck Norris jokes, but with his physical ability, Tae Kwan So and Savate training he's done some spectacular things with his leg, including enough damage in one blow to remove someone's head from their body.

It's funny when you mentioned the ''not obvious tank'', because the big, bald ork with the duster in our team usually registers as more of a threat right off than the tall elf with the fairly-long white hair, wire rimmed glasses, and the cigarette does. Until he decides to let loose the roundhouse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (Not that the ork isn't a threat, however. He can shoot a hole through your forehead.)

[crazyconscript]

Ah, the good ole' ork cowboy archetype. Our version has a yamaha growler with the personality of a horse and gyro-stabilisation system as his personal ride to complete him, and Interest knowledge: Old wild west films 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Out of interest, how many street sammies actually make use of the blood circuit control system? It seems to me to cost too much in terms of essence, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , and availability compared to the bioware platelet factories.

[Cardul]

Of course, you cant have laes coated hands....
"Okay, here we go!"
"..."
"Why are my covered in something?"

Um...wow...cool idea! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[The Jake]

Not enough Body bonus.
If there was a Dwarf that switched out Strength for Body, it would work out more favourable.
I do like my dwarves, but not as a tank usually O.o
They are too frigging small . . a Troll can tank simply because:"if he is standing in front of you, you are not seen any more"

I'm not sure but are there penalties for shooting at small targets (dwarves)? I can't see any in Arsenal or the BBB. Closest match is the 'Small Target' under Advanced combat rules in Arsenal but that doesn't really seem to fit the in line text....

On one hard, dwarves are penalised for not being able to wield reach 2 weapons easily, yet they don't get any perks such as penalties to hit. Harsh...very harsh..

- J.

[Stahlseele]

Also, they only provide cover for the legs of the rest of the group