[X] My Assistant

[Neraph]

EDIT: Removed useless post. My apologies.

[Malachi]

Freaking hell. Give me a child's bow and I can kill someone one shot with it. That's trolldrek.

Just use the top-end limit then: a bow can never do more damage than 18, period.

[Larme]

You can kill someone with almost anything. But SR4 just isn't that deadly of a system. Weak attacks rarely if ever kill. Even though a lucky shot from a rock by an 8 year old might permanently brain damage someone IRL, in Shadowrun, it's just going to bounce off harmlessly. A child's bow isn't going to pierce a major artery, or go through anyone's eye, it's just going to stick into their armor vest and do nothing. That's how the system works, we have a bit less reality in exchange for not needing to chargen every other session.

[Draco18s]

You can kill someone with almost anything. But SR4 just isn't that deadly of a system. Weak attacks rarely if ever kill. Even though a lucky shot from a rock by an 8 year old might permanently brain damage someone IRL, in Shadowrun, it's just going to bounce off harmlessly. A child's bow isn't going to pierce a major artery, or go through anyone's eye, it's just going to stick into their armor vest and do nothing. That's how the system works, we have a bit less reality in exchange for not needing to chargen every other session.

If you want silly deadly, break out 1st edition D&D. At least char gen takes 5 minutes or less.

OTOH if you're interested in an "Oh my god, I can't believe it's not deadly" game, find World Tree. The one game I played the GM came with premade characters. And for good reason. Char gen (that is, if you sit down, by yourself, and work start to finish) takes 4 hours or more.

[DireRadiant]

EDIT: If you MUST comment, at least include a well-described change.

And in that spirit....

"A specialization
grants the character 2 extra dice on tests using that skill
when the particular specialty applies (see Specializations, p. 109)."

Changed to

"A specialization grants the character a dice
pool modifier of +2 dice on tests using that skill when the particular
specialty applies (see Specializations, p. 84)."

---------------
p. 68 SR4A "Gamemaster approval is required to break up skill
groups during character creation."

p. 84 SR4A "Skill groups may not be broken up
into individual skills for further improvement and specializations may
not be taken for skill group skills at character creation—although, as
always, individual gamemasters are free to allow this option."

------------------------
Light Crossbow 0–STR x 2 To STR x 8 To STR x 20 To STR x 40
Medium Crossbow 0–STR x 3 To STR x 12 To STR x 30 To STR x 50
Heavy Crossbow 0–STR x 5 To STR x 15 To STR x 40 To STR x 60

To

Light Crossbow 0–6 7–24 25–60 61–120
Medium Crossbow 0–9 10–36 37–90 91–150
Heavy Crossbow 0–15 16–45 46–120 121–180

-------------------------

"Spirits on remote services no longer count against the
limit of summoned spirits."

p.187 SR4A "Spirits on remote service continue
to count against the limit of summoned spirits until their remote service
is completed."

------------------

Touch spell verus unwilling target.

"One net hit is suffi cient for the caster to
touch the target."

P. Sr4A "A tie
on the Opposed Melee Test is sufficient for the caster to touch the
target (p. 63)."

Touch spell versus unwilling target.

"One net hit is suffi cient for the caster to
touch the target."

P. Sr4A "A tie
on the Opposed Melee Test is sufficient for the caster to touch the
target (p. 63)."

Sprites now have Edge = Rating

Courier Sprite Optional CF
Complex Forms: Analyze, Encrypt, Stealth, Track, Transfer
to
Complex Forms: Analyze, Edit, Encrypt, Stealth, Track

Crack Sprite Skills
Cybercombat, Electronic Warfare, Hacking
to
Computer, Electronic Warfare, Hacking

Data Sprites
Skills: Computer, Data Search, Decrypt
Complex Forms: Browse, Edit, Transfer
to
Skills: Computer, Data Search, Electronic Warfare
Complex Forms: Analyze, Browse, Edit, Decrypt

Fault Sprites
Skills: Cybercombat, Hacking
Complex Forms: Armor, Attack, Stealth
to
Skills: Computer, Cybercombat, Hacking
Complex Forms: Analyze, Armor, Attack, Stealth

Machine Sprits
Complex Forms: Command
to
Complex Forms: Command, Analyze

Energy Aura p. 294 SR4A
Type: P • Action: Auto • Range: Touch • Duration: Always
to
Type: P • Action: Auto • Range: Self • Duration: Always

p. 331 SR4A
Activesoft s (Rating 1-4) 8 Rating x 3,000
Knowsoft s (Ratings 1–5) 4 Rating x 1,000
to
Activesofts (Rating 1–4) 8 Rating x 10,000
Knowsofts (Ratings 1–5) 4 Rating x 2,000

And
Virtual Surround Music — 50¥
to
Virtual Surround Music — 1¥ per simchip

"Fake SIN (Rating 1–6) (Rating x 3)F Rating x 1,000¥" Yay.

p. 334 SR4A sensor package has "Medium Drone 6 4" added
p. 334 Sr4A Camera and Microphone have been removed, see relavant section elsewhere.
"See Visual Sensors and Imaging Devices, p. 332."
"Microphone: See Audio Sensors, p. 333."

Note: This implies p. 332 Vision Sensor capacity is used, as well as p. 335 Audio Sensor Microphone capacity

p. 337 sr4A "Gas Mask — 200¥" instead of 100
"Respirator (Rating 1–6) — Rating x 25¥" instead of "Respirator (Rating 1–6) Rating x 2 Rating x 100¥"

p. 344 SR4A
Large Smuggling Compartment — [5] 6 2,000¥
to
"Large Smuggling Compartment — [5] 20R 100,000¥"

p. 348 Sr4A
"Conjuring Materials (Force x 2) Force x 1,500¥"
to
"Spirit Binding Materials (Force x 2) Force x 500¥"

p. 351 SR4A
"Mitsubishi Nightsky (Limousine) –2 15/25 100 3 12 10 1 — 20,000¥"
to
"Mitsubishi Nightsky (Limousine) –2 15/25 100 3 12 10 1 — 120,000¥"

"MT Sea Nymph (Yacht) –3 10/20 45 2 18 6 1 — 17,000¥"
TO
"MT Sea Nymph (Yacht) –3 10/20 45 2 18 6 1 — 170,000¥"

[Larsine]

Many of your changes are erratta, and has been corrected/changed in previous printings. I would guess you are baseing the changes on a 1st printing.

For all the errata see http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/sr4/sr4_errata_v18.pdf

The errata includes:
Changes to crossbows (2nd printing)
Spirits on remote service (4th printing)
Sprites optional CF (4th printing)
Fake SIN availability (2nd printing)
Medium Drone sensor package (4th printing)
Gas Mask & Respirator changes (5th printing)
Conjuring Materials to Spirit Binding Materials (2nd printing)
Mitsubishi Nightsky & MT Sea Nymph changes (4th printing)

Touch spell verus unwilling target.

"One net hit is sufficient for the caster to touch the target."

P. Sr4A "A tie on the Opposed Melee Test is sufficient for the caster to touch the target (p. 63)."

SR4 page 139-140 already had the following:
If the result of the Opposed Test is a tie, the gamemaster may choose to rule it as a grazing hit. A grazing hit does not do any damage, but the character nevertheless makes contact. This allows certain contact-only attacks (poisons, shock gloves,touch-only combat spells, etc.) to still do damage.

So it's an optional rule now made into a RAW rule.

p. 344 SR4A
Large Smuggling Compartment — [5] 6 2,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
to
"Large Smuggling Compartment — [5] 20R 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) "

20R 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) I do belive it's a mistake, or the devs must have been smoking something. Who would ever pay 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for a big hollow space in your cyberlimb?

But the rest of your listed changes looks good.

Lars

[ElFenrir]

20R 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) I do belive it's a mistake, or the devs must have been smoking something. Who would ever pay 100,000 nuyen.gif for a big hollow space in your cyberlimb?

But the rest of your listed changes looks good.

That was the one change that I was scratching my head at. I'm like ''WTF...I can build one of these for ya for a fraction of the cost from my van...'' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

I want to say that's a misprint, given the extremeness. It's easy to see how the boat and the car were misprints the other way(17,000 one forgot a 0, and the 20,000 one forgot the 1), but this is all off with a way different availability and everything.

[DireRadiant]

Many of your changes are erratta, and has been corrected/changed in previous printings. I would guess you are baseing the changes on a 1st printing.

I swear I was going through the 1.5 PDF, Ah well, thanks, I'll make sure to cross check against the errata. I could have easily been using the 1.0 as a reference. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Larsine]

I swear I was going through the 1.5 PDF, Ah well, thanks, I'll make sure to cross check against the errata. I could have easily been using the 1.0 as a reference. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hmm... I've just checked my PDFs and I only have a two different 1.0 and a 1.3.

The first 1.0 is from august 31st 2005 (when I bought it).
The second 1.0 is from september 20th 2005 (the first update).
The 1.3 is from february 8th 2006 (the last update).

I've not recieved any updates since then. Am I missing an update?

Lars

[Ryu]

// Deeply sorry Aaron, I would still be waiting for the street date and actual book.


@Larsine: You can find an 1.8 erratum that is reflected in the fifth and sixth printing on the SR4 page. Service Link

The have been license rights issues with distributing updated pdfs after 1.3, so you didn´t get one (lets be careful and add a general "as far as I know/remember").

[hobgoblin]

20R 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) I do belive it's a mistake, or the devs must have been smoking something. Who would ever pay 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for a big hollow space in your cyberlimb?

its a smuggling compartment (funny that its just R, not F), so it may well be more then just a hollow box.
maybe something more like a gas tight chamber thats supposed to look like just another part of the limb on all but the most detailed for cyberware scans?

[Matsci]

Gel round now reduce damage by one and Reduce AP by +2. Previously, they just reduced AP by +2.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

This thread now is officially deprecated.

[Draco18s]

This thread now is officially deprecated.

Indeed it is. I'm reading through the pdf now as I haven't had an earlier chance. A few snippets:

"Cumulative positive Social Modifiers may not exceed the character’s combined natural Attribute + Skill Ratings."
- The pornomancer is dead.

"Falling rate has been decreased to 50 meters in the first turn, 150
meters in the second turn 150 meters, and 200 meters per turn
thereafter."
- A little odd, that bold bit. Looks like the errata needs some typo fixing too! ;P

Scatter table:
"Rocket 4D6 meters – 1 per net hit"
- It's official: Rockets are never gonna hit nothin'

"Sleep Deprivation added as a Toxin"
- Ha! Nice touch.

I think it looks good. Anything I had an issue with has been mitigated (except illusions being resisted by OR, but that's been around for a while, it only came up because the OR thresholds went up and the concept came under question).

[Rotbart van Dain...]

"Cumulative positive Social Modifiers may not exceed the character’s combined natural Attribute + Skill Ratings."
- The pornomancer is dead.

Not really, getting an Elf to a natural Attribute of 11 is possible (Quality, Metagenetic Quality, Genetech), as is getting the Skill to natural 7 (Quality).
That caps the Pornomancer at 18 natural dice and a total max DP of 36.

[Draco18s]

Not really, getting an Elf to a natural Attribute of 11 is possible (Quality, Metagenetic Quality, Genetech), as is getting the Skill to natural 7 (Quality).
That caps the Pornomancer at 18 natural dice and a total max DP of 36.

He's still pornorific, but 36 dice is far shy of 52.

[Larme]

I like that change because it sorta brings pornomancers back into reality-level dice pools (though not exactly), but primarily because it nerfs that @&#* emotitoy. No longer can you have a charisma of 1, etiquette of 1, and 8 etiquette dice. Now, at most, someone with that level of social skill gets a +2 from the emotitoy.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I'd rather see a direct Emotitoy nerf.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I kind of wanted to see them shot repeatedly, burned, and buried never to be seen again.

[Glyph]

He's still pornorific, but 36 dice is far shy of 52.

Well, the 52 dice was extremely conditional, anyways. It would need to be someone who knew of the character's global fame, who was from the character's neighborhood, but had never met the character before, the character would have to be somewhere where strong odors wouldn't turn her pheromone receptors into a disadvantage, it would need to be a non-threatening situation for glamour to work, she would need to be currently on Ex (rather than crashing from it), and so on.

I'm kind of flattered that they actually thought the pornomancer was something they needed to address. But really, it's like the ultimate climbing build - it only shows up as a dice-pumping exercise. With finite points at char-gen, most players will improve other things instead of getting things that are overkill, and whose hindrances are not worth the extra dice (global fame, pheromone receptors, symbiosis, addiction to Ex).

btw, I agree completely on the shot repeatedly, burned, and buried never to be seen again on emotoys.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Scatter table:
"Rocket 4D6 meters – 1 per net hit"
- It's official: Rockets are never gonna hit nothin'

And Grenades and Missiles will neither. Of course, even if they would hit perfectly - you aren't allowed to increase Damage anymore. If you set them up with Demolitions, though - you are.

So, basically, there is no point ever getting them except for booby-trapping.

[Draco18s]

And Grenades and Missiles will neither. Of course, even if they would hit perfectly - you aren't allowed to increase Damage anymore.

You're not thinking about this strait.

I bean the guy with the grenade (damage for a 1 pound thrown object) and then it explodes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

However, what I meant was, that you can catch your primary target in the blast radius (near the center) with a grenade, whereas with a rocket landing 10 meters away means that your primary target can roast marshmallows on the burn area whilst remaining unscathed.

[Shinobi Killfist]

maybe the scatter charts should be posted in the errata thread, because that just can't be right.

[Larme]

Well, missiles have scatter reduced by 1 per sensor rating... But still, that does seem pretty wildly innacurate. Game balance wise I don't mind it, because assuming a rocket hits, there's almost no chance of anything surviving. These are the ultimate super weapons, introducing a degree of chaos into their operation would make them a bit less of a no-brainer choice, and also would increase the fun, with rockets wreacking havoc all over the place and causing an orgy of splosions everywhere! BaBOOM! Kablow! Wheee! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Of course, it should be noted that you can use an airburst link for rockets, to change their scatter from 4d6 to 2d6. You'd have to be insane not to do that, in fact (sorta like me, in the previous paragraph). But it makes sense -- if you're shooting a rocket that relies on an impact fuse and/or timer, without an airburst link to time the detonation precisely, there's a lot of uncertainty about exactly when and where it blows up, since it's traveling at high velocity and might glance off of something before exploding, or narrowly miss the target and explode on something else. An airburst link solves most of the scatter problem. If you make it a high rating missile, and roll a decent shot though, you can pretty much count on a dead-accurate hit, which is how it should be. Dumbfire rockets might not blow up where you want them, but precision guided missiles with an airburst link are pretty much instant death to the opposition.