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> Sprites - Diagnostics, porting over from Aaron's changes thread
Tiger Eyes
post Mar 21 2009, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE (Abschalten @ Mar 20 2009, 07:10 PM)
* The sprite power of Diagnostics has a slight nerf to it, limiting how many bonus dice you can get.

Sorry to break protocol (seeing as I don't own the PDF [yet]), but does the 'slight nerf' cap the bonus dice at the sprite's force (similar to spellcasting tests)? That would make sense and follow similar rules.


The slight nerf is that, like any teamwork test, the assistance bonus dice are capped by the character's skill. Hence, a street sam with a Pistols skill of 3 can only use 3 bonus dice from a Machine sprite using diagnostics on the smart-gun. This is in keeping with teamwork tests and the original intention for Diagnostics (ie, that the sprite is 'assisting' the user).
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Cain
post Mar 22 2009, 01:27 AM
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No offense, but that just opened up another can of worms. Are you saying that Diagnostics will add dice to smartlinks? And thus, shooting?
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DireRadiant
post Mar 22 2009, 02:25 AM
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QUOTE (Tiger Eyes @ Mar 21 2009, 05:12 PM) *
The slight nerf is that, like any teamwork test, the assistance bonus dice are capped by the character's skill. Hence, a street sam with a Pistols skill of 3 can only use 3 bonus dice from a Machine sprite using diagnostics on the smart-gun. This is in keeping with teamwork tests and the original intention for Diagnostics (ie, that the sprite is 'assisting' the user).


I think your reading too much into the use of the word "smart-gun". Whether or not it is a smart-gun, the bonus dice from diagnostics is limited by the skill.

Try "The slight nerf is that, like any teamwork test, the assistance bonus dice are capped by the character's skill. Hence, a street sam with a Pistols skill of 3 can only use 3 bonus dice from a Machine sprite using diagnostics on the gun. This is in keeping with teamwork tests and the original intention for Diagnostics (ie, that the sprite is 'assisting' the user)."
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 22 2009, 02:36 AM
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QUOTE (Cain @ Mar 21 2009, 07:27 PM) *
No offense, but that just opened up another can of worms. Are you saying that Diagnostics will add dice to smartlinks? And thus, shooting?


:Cring:
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Tiger Eyes
post Mar 22 2009, 02:53 AM
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The slight nerf is that, like any teamwork test, the assistance bonus dice are capped by the character's skill. Hence, a Gourmet Chef with an Artisian (Pastry Baking) skill of 3 can only use 3 bonus dice from a Machine sprite using diagnostics on the convection oven. This is in keeping with teamwork tests and the original intention for Diagnostics (ie, that the sprite is 'assisting' the user).
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Cain
post Mar 22 2009, 02:59 AM
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That's nice, but that doesn't answer the question. Flame wars have raged long and hot over rather or not Diagnostics will help someone shoot. Could you settle this for once and for all?
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Neraph
post Mar 22 2009, 03:28 AM
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QUOTE (Cain @ Mar 21 2009, 09:59 PM) *
That's nice, but that doesn't answer the question. Flame wars have raged long and hot over rather or not Diagnostics will help someone shoot. Could you settle this for once and for all?

Maybe.
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DireRadiant
post Mar 22 2009, 04:21 PM
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If you would give the bonus for Diagnostics when used with an Oven and Artisan skill, and you really don't like it and wouldn't give the bonus dice when Diagnostics is used with a gun and Pistols, that's entirely up to you and allowable within the rules.

Your choice, your game.

Diagnostics power doesn't limit what types of skills can get the bonus, and both a gun and oven are devices (Peripheral devices most often).

The GM is always the initial person who works out if particular rules apply or not.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with Diagnostics working with a gun, there are already other ways of boosting gun skills through Adept powers (Increase Skill), Magic Spells (Analyze Device, Increase Agility),and numerous Cyberware. Why is it all of a sudden a "can of worms" when a TM can do it via a Sprite? Is it because it's new, it wasn't in SR3 and is somehow different? Does it not fit the genre? Are you discriminating because it's a TM doing it?

If you object to it solely on the grounds that no one should be getting bonus dice, then you'll have to take away all the other ways of gaining bonuses too.

Given all that, there are reasons to look at this power and think about it's relative cost and balance compared to the other ways of conferring bonuses to skills. The biggest cost is of course, you'd need to be a TM in the first place, and that's not cheap at all.
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Cain
post Mar 22 2009, 05:32 PM
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I'm not saying rather or not it should or shouldn't be usable with guns. I have enough fun dealing with r6 Machine Spirits and Diagnostics on Emotitoys. The nerf will help a little with that.

However, it won't help the gun issue. A street sam is certain to have a firearms skill of greater than 5, so the nerf isn't going to apply, there. There's substantial debate as to rather or not Diagnostics should help with shooting at all. In fact, I think it was Ryu who said that weapons are specifically excluded (but not smartlinks, for some reason) in the German edition.
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Ryu
post Mar 22 2009, 06:03 PM
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It was me, but I was certainly not speaking in praise of that ruling.
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GreyBrother
post Mar 22 2009, 08:26 PM
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Vehicles too. It's a screwed up ruling, dunno why it came up.
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