Medals and awards, In the disunited world of the sixth world Options

[Chrysalis]

Greets,

I have a character who is in his eighties and has served in the UCAS navy as a diver. He is a medical doctor, retired after 30 years of active service of which the first fifteen were served on ships including the USS Colin Powell. Guest lecturer at the UCAS Naval Academy on underwater salvage. I was thinking what kinds of medals and insignia he would have.

In the real world he could have:


Navy & Marine Corps Medal
Navy & Marine Corps Commendation Medal
Navy Presidential Unit Citation
Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation
Navy E Ribbon
Navy Good Conduct Medal
Armed Forces Service Medal
Navy Sea Service Deployment Ribbon
Navy & Marine Overseas Service Ribbon

Diving Medical Officer Insignia (worn)


How would the U.S. joining the UCAS affect?

Could someone who knows this better give me a hand with the fruit salad/Navy Ribbon Rack? I don't want it to be a put my hand in the medal drawer and see what comes up.

On a wider note: Does CAS go back to looking like a confederate reenactment society with Confederate ranks? What happens to medals and ranks of U.S. military personnel in UCAS and CAS. Do they have the right to wear the uniform and medals say during Veteran's Day?

Would there be further medals and awards given by 2070?

Thanks,

-Chrysalis

[Nath]

You can probably forget about the NATO medal. Considering what happened during the Eurowars, with the Russians taking Berlin and the US/UCAS not moving, the treaty and the organization are probably out.

The USS Lincoln should be decommissioned around 2020. The old Seattle sourcebook had Everett Naval Station as the port of call for the USS Leonard Koontz in 2049 and Runner Havens had the USS Colin Powell in 2070. Which BTW implies they ceased to name air carrier after former US president (kinda makes sense, as the Canadian wouldn't be fond of it).

[Chrysalis]

So USS Colin Powell, no NATO medal... Anything else?

[hermit]

On a wider note: Does CAS go back to looking like a confederate reenactment society with Confederate ranks? What happens to medals and ranks of U.S. military personnel in UCAS and CAS. Do they have the right to wear the uniform and medals during Veteran's day?

The first has been implied in the NAGNA, and simply not touched in SoNA. The CAS is a huge white spot in SR, anyway. Both UCAS and CAS lack coherent description, and personally, I'd love to see an in-depth sourcebook about those two states with the same amount of stuff NAN 1 and 2 contained. Probably will not happen, since most American playersd know their countries better than I do, but for me as a non-American, that ould really help a lot to get a grip on these places and avoid falling into clichés too much.

Personally, I would use the Confederate ranks. They have to distinguish themselves somehow and the NAGNA article was one solid testament to Confederate pride.

Also, their SEAL equivalent is the ferrets, and they, too, have a Marine Corps (both according to Just Compensation), though with no expeditionary forces, landing ships or carriers (NAGNA, SoNA) probably little use for them.

Anyway, with the "True Americanism" going on in the CAS, I'd think US veterans may wear their US medals and achivements in the CAS. Not so sure about the UCAS, though.

[MJBurrage]

...The old Seattle Sourcebook had Everett Naval Shipyard as the port of call for the USS Leonard Koontz...

Out of curiosity, where did you find the name ''Leonard Koontz", all I found was "USS Koontz". While Leonard (as a highly decorated vet) is a possibility, so is Admiral Robert E. Coontz who was the Commandant of the Puget Sound Navy Yard (1914–1918), the second Chief of Naval Operations (1919–1923), and commanded the USS Seattle as his flagship. His name was often misspelled Koontz in the press, and that may have led to the wrong spelling in the SSB.

As for the original question, I presume you chose not to include either the Medal of Honor nor the Naval Cross? Both are higher in precedence than the Silver Star.

Given the relative size and power of the Canadian Navy with respect to the US Navy, I would suspect that almost everything is still done under US Navy regs and standards. The ships are still "USS" for example. Having said that there must have been some concessions, but I could not say what.

[kzt]

People can have a very successful military career without being in a position to get awarded combat metals. Particularly as a diver. The primary function of Navy divers is fixing broken ships and underwater systems. Repair ships aren't supposed to get shot at, and divers aboard can't do a whole lot about it if they are. The divers who salvaged the ships sunk in Pearl Harbor did incredibly useful stuff under very dangerous conditions but you don't get silver stars for that.

Is this character a a retired officer or NCO?

[Nath]

Out of curiosity, where did you find the name ''Leonard Koontz", all I found was "USS Koontz". While Leonard (as a highly decorated vet) is a possibility, so is Admiral Robert E. Coontz who was the second Chief of Naval Operations (1919–1923), and commanded the USS Seattle as his flagship. His name was often misspelled Koontz in the press, and that may have led to the wrong spelling in the SSB.

My bad. I searched for the Koontz name a few years ago, and the USMC veteran was the only result I got (I suppose the NY Times archives with the Admiral name misspelled weren't online at the time to show up first on Google as they do now). So I always assumed the ship was named after him, and never think twice when writing about it. Now, your guess is as good as mine. The USS Seattle might be a hint. Also, US Navy decommissioned the frigate USS Coontz (built in Everett, but attached first to San Diego and later to Norfolk) in 1989, precisely the year they wrote Seattle.

[Chrysalis]

As for the original question, I presume you chose not to include either the Medal of Honor nor the Naval Cross? Both are higher in precedence than the Silver Star.

I decided to avoid the Navy Cross and Medal of Honor. Even old Chesty never had a silver medal and only one bronze star (ignoring the four navy crosses).

The major ones are:

Presidential Unit Citation
National Intelligence Distinguished Service Medal

Is this character a a retired officer or NCO?

Officer.

Are there any major naval engagements in which he could have won those in the Pacific theater of operations?

I am trying to build a character who starts off from medical school, become a navy diver, and has a distinguished navy record. I thought I would work from his fruit salad backwards instead of starting off with a character concept and then figuring out the recognitions.

-Chrysalis

[kzt]

A physician doesn't usually have a PhD, they an MD or OD. There are some who also have a PhD, but they would almost certainly be in a research organization.

One of the typical things young doctors in the Navy do is spend time as a battalion surgeon with a marine battalion. That's the most likely way a physician would have a silver star. I think several have earned them in Iraq.

Once you become a Dive medical officer my understanding is that would tend to have you spending most of your time in various units as a physician. Mostly subs, & salvage/diving units, maybe EOD, a few get to play with the SEALs. But you are not out getting shot at unless things go completely to hell.

[Chrysalis]

A physician doesn't usually have a PhD, they an MD or OD. There are some who also have a PhD, but they would almost certainly be in a research organization.

One of the typical things young doctors in the Navy do is spend time as a battalion surgeon with a marine battalion. That's the most likely way a physician would have a silver star. I think several have earned them in Iraq.

Once you become a Dive medical officer my understanding is that would tend to have you spending most of your time in various units as a physician. Mostly subs, & salvage/diving units, maybe EOD, a few get to play with the SEALs. But you are not out getting shot at unless things go completely to hell.

This would make sense. USS Colin Powell and then a salvage unit would make more sense as well.

EDIT: Cleaned up the fruit salad.

[Browncoatone]

The first has been implied in the NAGNA, and simply not touched in SoNA. The CAS is a huge white spot in SR, anyway. Both UCAS and CAS lack coherent description, and personally, I'd love to see an in-depth sourcebook about those two states with the same amount of stuff NAN 1 and 2 contained. Probably will not happen, since most American playersd know their countries better than I do, but for me as a non-American, that ould really help a lot to get a grip on these places and avoid falling into clich�s too much.

Personally, I would use the Confederate ranks. They have to distinguish themselves somehow and the NAGNA article was one solid testament to Confederate pride.

That's funny, I didn't even know the Confederate ranks were different from the Union ranks. Of course I'm just a Yan-Kee from the west coast so maybe that has something to do with it.

[TBRMInsanity]

The UCAS military is a mixture of US and Canadian military cultures and as such I would expect that certain aspects of the Canadian metal system would transfer over to the US model. I would expect that posting ribbons would cease to exist but tour ribbons, qualification ribbons, and overseas ribbons would be maintained. I think there would also be more medals for acts of bravery, dedicated service, and military conduct.

[kzt]

It's a lot like the Luxembourg military being merged with Germany or France. There isn't much trace as they are outnumbered by something like 20-1.

[TBRMInsanity]

But I can see that the UCAS would not be able to maintain their current training program as is (due to the huge loss in resources after the Great Ghost Dance). They would be forced to cut costs and the best way would be to adopt a system that part (even if it was a small part) of their forces know already and that produces decent troops. The Canadian Forces system does that and the training isn't that alien to US troops (especially Yankee states that regularly do war games with Canada). That being said I do see the basic military cuture to remain similar to the current US Armed Forces.

[Chrysalis]

Well infantry would remain similar, differences would really be equipment based. Nonetheless, there are so many problems with CAS and UCAS splitting in terms of locations of major U.S. Military bases. I think one would be in CAS hands (Ft. Benning):

California National Guard (Iraq Deployment, Border Security, Wildfires)
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/CAAG%2DMS/
916-854-3304, 3391

Camp Shelby, MS, Joint Forces Training Center (National Guard Pre-Iraq/Afghanistan Deployment Training)
http://www.ngms.state.ms.us/campshelby/dir.../pao/index.html
http://www.ngms.state.ms.us/campshelby/dir...pao/contact.htm
LTC Doril Sanders
601-558-2835, 2271
doril.sanders@us.army.mil

Ft. Dix, NJ (Army Reserve Pre-Iraq/Afghanistan Deployment Training)
http://www.dix.army.mil/PAO/pao.htm
Ms. Carolee Nisbet,
609-562-4035,
Carolee.Nisbet@dix.army.mil
Ft. Dix is the closest major Army base to New York City and is next to McGuire Air Force Base.

Ft. Bragg, NC (U.S. Army Airborne Corps)
http://www.bragg.army.mil/pao/default.htm
(910) 396-5600/5620/2122/2920
http://www.bragg.army.mil/pao/public_affai...ff_contacts.htm (PAO Email Directory)

Ft. Benning, GA (U.S. Army Infantry)
https://www.benning.army.mil/PAO/index.asp
706-545-3512, 706-545-2237
benn.pao@benning.army.mil

Ft Irwin, CA, National Training Center, (Pre-Iraq/Afghanistan Deployment Training, Desert Training)
http://www.irwin.army.mil/Services/Other/P...AO+Contacts.htm
John Wagstaffe
(760) 380-5960
john.wagstaffe@irwin.army.mil
Ft. Irwin is the closest major Army base to Los Angeles.

Ft Polk, LA, Joint Readiness Training Center (Pre-Iraq/Afghanistan Deployment Training)
http://www.jrtc-polk.army.mil/paoweb/PAO%2...ntactsPage.html
Ms. Samantha Evans
337-531-1418 or 337-531-4630.
Samantha.evans@polk.army.mil, Polk.mr@conus.army.mil

Ft. Riley, KS (Iraqi/Afghan Army Training Teams)
http://www.riley.army.mil/
Ms. Deb Skidmore
785-239-3410
deb.skidmore@us.army.mil

Langley Air Force Base, Langley, VA (Air Combat Command)
http://www.langley.af.mil/
757-764-5471
acc.pa2@langley.af.mil
Langley AFB located near Norfolk Naval Base and is the closest combat aviation base to Washington, DC.

Los Angeles Air Force Base, El Segundo, CA (Space & Missile Command)
http://www.losangeles.af.mil/smc/pa/pa-page.shtml
310-653-1132, 2371
smcpa.media@losangeles.af.mil
Los Angeles AFB is the closest airbase to Los Angeles, CA.

Marine Corps Base Quantico, VA (Marine Corps University, etc.)
http://www.quantico.usmc.mil/
703-784-2741
sentry.quantico@usmc.mil
Quantico is the closest major USMC base to Washington, DC.

Marine Corps Camp Pendleton, CA (1st MEF, Iraq Deployment, etc.)
http://www.pendleton.usmc.mil/media.asp
760-725-5044, 760-725-5043
cpao.mcbcampenmedia@usmc.mil
Pendleton is the closest USMC base to Los Angeles and the largest on the West Coast.

McGuire Air Force Base, Morristown, NJ (305th Air Mobility Wing)
http://public.mcguire.amc.af.mil/
609-754-2104
212-784-0147
big.apple.ny@mcguire.af.mil
McGuire is the closest Air Force Base to New York City and is next to Ft. Dix.

New York National Guard, 69th Infantry Regiment (September 11, Iraq Deployment)
http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/press/pindx.html (NY State - Public Affairs)
http://www.sixtyninth.net/index.html (The Fighting 69th Infantry Regiment)
LTC Paul Fanning
518-786-4581
212-889-6677/6652
paul.a.fanning@us.army.mil
The 69th Regiment is based in Manhattan, New York City.

Norfolk Naval Station Norfolk, VA (U.S. Atlantic Fleet)
http://www.navstanorva.navy.mil/
Ms. Terri Davis
757-322-2576
terri.k.davis@navy.mil
Naval Station Norfolk is the closest major naval base to Washington, DC.

San Diego Naval Station, San Diego, CA (U.S. Third Fleet, Naval Air Station, etc.)
http://www.navbasesd.navy.mil/index.htm (San Diego)
619-556-7359
pao@ns.cnrsw.navy.mil
http://www.c3f.navy.mil/contact_page.htm (Third Fleet)
619-767-4382, 619-524-9868
dora.lockwood@navy.mil


U.S. Army Media Relations Division: (OCPA)(MRD): 703-692-2000
http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/
http://www.army.mil/institution/armypublicaffairs/contact/
PressDesk@hqda.army.mil

US Army Media Relations Division: (OCPA) (MRD) - New York Office:
805 Third Avenue, 9th Floor
New York City, NY 10022-7513
LTC Jeff Buczkowski
(212) 784-0134
Jeffrey.Buczkowski@us.army.mil

US Army Media Relations Division: (OCPA) (MRD) - Los Angeles Office:
10880 Wilshire Boulevard Suite 1250
Los Angeles, California 90024-4101
Phone: (310) 235-7621,
http://www4.army.mil/outreach/offices/losAngeles/contact/


Virginia National Guard (Iraq Deployment, etc.)
http://vko.va.ngb.army.mil/VirginiaGuard/
http://vko.va.ngb.army.mil/VirginiaGuard/media/index.html
Capt. Dayna Rowden
434-294-1477
dayna.rowden@us.army.mil

Washington, DC National Guard (Iraq Deployments, etc.)
http://dcng.ngb.army.mil/jfpublicaffairs.htm
202-685-9862
paodc@dc.ngb.army.mil

To put this in terms of the original post: The Naval Support Activity Panama City (NSA PC), is located in Panama City, Florida and is a United States Navy military base. It is located within Bay County. Among other commands, it houses Naval Surface Warfare Center Panama City Division and the Navy Experimental Diving Unit (NEDU).

The Naval Surface Warfare Center Panama City Division is a major research, development, test and evaluation laboratories of the Naval Sea Systems Command NAVSEA. It is one of the largest employers in Bay County, Florida with an annual payroll of about $117 million. NSAPC employs approximately 2800 civilian and military personnel, for an annual payroll of over $150 million. NSA Panama City contracts services, buys local goods, and maintains an active construction program. Its economic impact on Bay County is about $400 million annually.

Most likely the base would continue to exist but under diminished capacity, if not lobotimized.

But the UCAS or CAS I suspect no longer does force projection as that is expensive and involves a very long logistical tail. Most likely even the extensive nuclear submarine arsenal that CAS supposedly has would be in serious trouble as the equipment and companies are located across the border. Unless of course they have an exclusive contract with a AAA corp, such as Ares Macrotechnology. I suspect UCAS and CAS would be more intersted in maintaining coast guard status instead of long distance strategic nuclear deployment.

[TBRMInsanity]

Talking about nuclear weapons, where are most of the ICBMs located (as in which states). I can see trouble when the CAS split especially if the silos were in the dixie states but the control modules were in the Yankee states. Also how many sites were taken by the NAN (I know Cayenne was, but it was destroyed before anything useful could be acquired from it).

[Chrysalis]

Most operations would have moved to CFB North Bay where the counterpart to NORAD's SAGE system is located. It was designed that if Cheyenne mountain would be disabled control would be transferred there.

In the real world it is mothballed, pending expansion into a larger facility, but can be activated with a moment's notice.

You can easily ruin an ICBM silo by letting the fuel leak from the rocket. Not only is it highly toxic it is also indredibly flammable. A mechanically timed detonation device is enough with some plastique and det cord to collapse key parts of the facility.

[TBRMInsanity]

You think since North Bay is so close to the NAN that they would have moved to a more central location (like Springfield or Indianapolis).

[pbangarth]

It would cost billions to build a new facility.

[TBRMInsanity]

It would cost billions to build a new facility.

When it comes to the possibility of losing control of your nuclear weapons that is a VERY acceptable price tag.

[Chrysalis]

Decades of debate political debate ensures. The location though was selected for its remoteness.

CFB North Bay remains Canada's primary NORAD site, with responsibility for monitoring the Canadian NORAD sector, namely the ADIZ surrounding Canada. Tools used by 22 Wing include the North Warning System which stretches across the Canadian Arctic, as well as coastal radars on the Atlantic and Pacific coasts of Canada (primarily used by Maritime Command, these radars reportedly have the dual ability to track small aircraft), and any Airborne Warning and Control System aircraft operated by the USAF or NATO in Canadian airspace.

In the 1980s when the Shadowrun timeline starts you have the development of the MGM-134A Midgetman, formally designated as the Small Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (SICBM). The Midgetman grew out of a requirement expressed in the mid 1980s by the US Air Force for a small ICBM which could be deployed on road vehicles. Fixed silos are inherently vulnerable to attack, and with the increasing accuracy of submarine launched ballistic missiles there was a growing threat that the Soviet Union could launch large numbers of missiles from off the coast, destroying most of the US ICBM force before it could be used. By producing a mobile missile which could not easily be targeted by enemy forces, the Air Force hoped to negate this possibility. It was also a response to the Soviet development of SS-24 (rail mobile) and the SS-25 (road mobile) ICBMs.

The Midgetman had a range of some 11,000 kilometers (6,800 miles). The warhead comprised a single Mark 21 re-entry vehicle with a 475 kiloton W87-1 thermonuclear warhead, also used on the LGM-118 Peacekeeper. With the end of the cold war in the 1990s the US scaled back its development of new nuclear weapons. The Midgetman program was therefore cancelled in January 1992.

[FlakJacket]

Korea Defense Service Medal

When did the US pull all their forces back to the continenal US? I remember one of the main books mentioning a year in the history section by which they didn't have any troops left stationed overseas. Plus Korea was unified by the end of 2006 thanks to the military government that took over South Korea that was strongly backed by the Japanese Imperial State and the nascent Japanese megacorporations. With no North Korean threat and Japanese troops stationed in the North guarding the nuclear facilites I could see the JIS leaning on the Koreans to get any remaining US troops removed post haste so he might be a bit late for the Korea Defense Service Medal.

[Nath]

When did the US pull all their forces back to the continenal US? I remember one of the main books mentioning a year in the history section by which they didn't have any troops left stationed overseas.

Before 2035, according to the Neo-Anarchist Guide to North America.

[Chrysalis]

So what kinds of conflicts have there been? I canät believe that there was great stability between 2010 and 2040...

[Nath]

So what kinds of conflicts have there been? I canät believe that there was great stability between 2010 and 2040...

Depending and who you ask, SR timeline may start as soon as 1979. First and Second edition even had Soviet Union and South African Apartheid surviving as far as the 2020ies. This, indeed, completely change the geopolitical landscape. So, the concflicts in the Yugoslavia, Persian Gulf, and Afghanistan may not occur, while South Korea and Japan went at war with North Korea in 2002.

Anyway, there is one major conflict in US military history that cannot be overlooked : from 2009 to 2017, the Sovereign American Indian Movement is fighting a guerrilla directly on US and Canada soil (You thought hunting Talibans in Afghanistan was hard ? US and Canada put together are twenty times more vast than Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Amerindians have spirits with Movement, Concealment and Accident powers...).

According to the NAGNA, a few US units in Europe were involved in the first Eurowar before leaving, but those were "diplomatic incidents" and not real operations. It is not precisely stated the UCAS weren't involved in the Second "Eurowar" against the Islamist regimes.